Sandbagger is an overused word.

[JerseyThursday]

I played in a club event over the weekend that was stroke play with a handicap. My handicap was 14 and I shot a 78. Immediately, I got the usual “hey, sandbagger” that always follows one of these type of events. Some was good-natured ribbing and some had a bit of accusation in their tone. It was a decent round but certainly not out of the scope of possibility (especially considering the weather conditions were perfect), so it grates on my nerves. It’s damned close to calling someone a liar or a cheat and that’s about as insulting as it gets.
BTW, I came in third and the guy that won was a 1 handicap and shot a 65. Does that make him a bigger “sandbagger”? I don’t think so.

[ajschn06]

Tell them to F#$% off, play better, and then they won't have to worry about who beat them....

[deronsizemore]

Easy course? A 1 shooting a 65 is pretty darn good and won't happen often. So either the guy had the round of this life, the course was easy, or he's not a 1.

A 14 handicap shooting a 78 is just hard to swallow for some, especially in a tournament when you're taking a prize away from them(?). Your handicap is there to indicate your potential, not your typical score. A golfer will play to their handicap less than 25% of the time, so when a 14 comes in at six over par (par 72?), you'll have some grumbles from the crowd.

Just tell them to not play in handicapped events if it bothers them so bad that someone had a good round.

[JerseyThursday]

Easy course?

Fairly easy. Par 70, slope 116.

[2bGood]

I am about the same cap as you and I shoot low's 80's once every 20 rounds with the odd 78, 79 sprinkled in. I am not a sandbagger, but I do admit to being able to up my game when needed. When I have a big game coming up I tend to spend way more time working on my short game and getting it sharp, I also stop working on my full swing, the result is on average I play a bit better, but I still go out and shoot a stinker in the 90's half the time but I am less likely to do it then my average game. To dat though I have only shot under my cap in a tournement once

[JerseyThursday]

Oh yeah, the huge prize for coming in third was a $35 gift certificate for the pro shop.
Honestly, would anyone only record their crappy rounds, for years, to get the big payoff of an umbrella?

[deronsizemore]

Oh yeah, the huge prize for coming in third was a $35 gift certificate for the pro shop.

I'd say you would be surprised. lol.

[jlh1508]

obviously you are a sandbagger

[JerseyThursday]

I am about the same cap as you and I shoot low's 80's once every 20 rounds with the odd 78, 79 sprinkled in. I am not a sandbagger, but I do admit to being able to up my game when needed. When I have a big game coming up I tend to spend way more time working on my short game and getting it sharp, I also stop working on my full swing, the result is on average I play a bit better, but I still go out and shoot a stinker in the 90's half the time but I am less likely to do it then my average game. To dat though I have only shot under my cap in a tournement once

Reminds me of the guy that was #1 on our high school team. He always shot 4+ strokes better in competition than when we were just playing casually.

BTW, he got a full-ride golf scholarship.

[alf174]

I played in a club event over the weekend that was stroke play with a handicap. My handicap was 14 and I shot a 78. Immediately, I got the usual “hey, sandbagger” that always follows one of these type of events. Some was good-natured ribbing and some had a bit of accusation in their tone. It was a decent round but certainly not out of the scope of possibility (especially considering the weather conditions were perfect), so it grates on my nerves. It’s damned close to calling someone a liar or a cheat and that’s about as insulting as it gets.

Fairly easy. Par 70, slope 116.

According to this

chart , your odds are 780:1 of shooting a 78 on that course. And 1000:1 is once in a lifetime. Hence the "grumbling" from your peers. A couple One more of those and your handicap is not representative of your potential. (Make sure that when you post that score for handicap purposes its labeled a tournament.)

[sean_miller]

According to this

Did he provide a course rating? If it's a 68, then 78 is only a net -4.

Not necessarily out of the question.

[alf174]

Did he provide a course rating? If it's a 68, then 78 is only a net -4.

my bad, he didn't list the rating

[JerseyThursday]

According to this

I don’t see how that chart factors in the course only being a par 70.

BTW, the course rating is 67.8

[alf174]

I don’t see how that chart factors in the course only being a par 70.

you're right and of course the odds change down to 176:1. good shooting!

[zeg]

First of all, the better chart to use is from the USGA ( http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handi...al/Appendix-E/ ) which has all the info you need to use it.

Note that the axis is the net differential, which is defined in the link I provided. In this case that is (78-67.8)*113/116 - 14 = -4.1, which is 87:1. Hardly astronomical odds, and not even likely to get a reduced handicap for exceptional tournament scores. In fact, you should get one of these "anomalies" every other tournament if you've got about 40 players in the 14-handicap range.

Also, you've got to take those probability charts with a grain of salt. I've shot scores twice in the last 10 rounds, one put me at the 874:1 and the other in the 359:1 category. These charts don't account well for changing handicaps: based on recent trends, I'm likely to move to about a 25 in a few rounds after spending most of the last couple years at > 36.4 (i.e., at the limit). Major shifts like this are less likely for lower handicaps than for higher since it gets harder to find places for "revolutionary" improvements, but there's still an effect...

[ghalfaire]

I played in a club event over the weekend that was stroke play with a handicap. My handicap was 14 and I shot a 78. Immediately, I got the usual “hey, sandbagger” that always follows one of these type of events. Some was good-natured ribbing and some had a bit of accusation in their tone. It was a decent round but certainly not out of the scope of possibility (especially considering the weather conditions were perfect), so it grates on my nerves. It’s damned close to calling someone a liar or a cheat and that’s about as insulting as it gets.

I would say a 78 on a par 70 by a 14 handicap is in the realm of being possible but not likely. Do it twice in competition you'll get a "special tournament handicap". Some folks just play better in competition than on casual rounds and some folks just cheat by not posting their good rounds (and maybe even some other things) to gain an edge. But I think the term Sandbagger is just recognition (complimentary) of a good round. I always assume it is a compliment unless someone makes it clear it is an accusation of cheating.

[zeg]

I would say a 78 on a par 70 by a 14 handicap is in the realm of being possible but not likely. Do it twice in competition you'll get a "special tournament handicap". Some folks just play better in competition than on casual rounds and some folks just cheat by not posting their good rounds (and maybe even some other things) to gain an edge. But I think the term Sandbagger is just recognition (complimentary) of a good round. I always assume it is a compliment unless someone makes it clear it is an accusation of cheating.

On the course he's talking about, a 70 for a 14 is probably just at the edge of triggering the reduced handicap---it was less than a 68 rating, so he only beat his handicap by a hair over 4 strokes. If he's doing that consistently, a reduced handicap is in order, but it's nowhere near enough to be evidence of sandbagging. Heck, I see that he's reporting a 13.5 index now, so it's probably just evidence that he's improving. A 14 shooting a 78 on that course should barely raise an eyebrow when you've got more than a few of 'em in the tournament, based on the probability tables posted above.

I tend to agree with the OP. Calling someone a sandbagger, even if in jest, is in poor taste unless you're good friends. I think "great round" is a more appropriate thing to say, because that's probably all it was. Speaking of those tables, I found it interesting to read them right-to-left. Notice how, other than the first row, the odds of shooting a particular score (relative to handicap) get BETTER as your handicap gets WORSE. For example, the -10 row lists 125,000:1 for a 0-5 handicapper, but only 874:1 for a 30+ handicapper. Using the standard that 1000:1 represents something you'll do once in your golf career, that means a 30 handicapper should expect do fire a 10 under once, while fewer than 1% of scratch golfers will ever reach that level. The reason is obvious: the worse golfer can show a flash of brilliance, play at par for a while, and pick up 10 strokes, while the better golfer has to play truly perfect golf to achieve that goal. The conclusion, as has been said many times before, is that the odds favor high handicappers winning net score tournaments most of the time. It's just easier for them to go low by chance. It's a fundamental imperfection in the handicapping system, not an indicator of sandbagging.

[taterlrsn]

my handicap now is a 1.7 (yes i need to update my profile). my club i just joined has many member only tournements during the year and one happened to be a member guest two man scramble. My friend has been a member for a long time but took a year off to get his business going so he wasnt a member and we paired up. i have never belonged to a club or played in flighted tournements (always play stroke for stroke either i win or loose). we are both good players so i am thinking we would be in the "A" flight. at the end of the first nine we are 8 under and my buddy tells me we need to slow down or they will put us in the "A" flight. i asked him why that would be a bad thing and he told me that the guys in the "A flight" are all great golfers and they are sandbagging today which causes everyone else to do the samething. So i go along with this because he had been a member there for 10 plus years. so the second day we were flighted to the "B" flight and wouldnt you know it we took second in our flight we shot a two day total of 22 under. so im looking at the "A" flight totals and every second day score was 17 under or more. im looking at the winning pair and one says he is a solid 9 and the other says he is a 10. and yet they managed to shoot those scores which happen to be the exact number before they shoot themselves out.

after that first tournement i have been asked many times to play with people in up coming events and then they find out my handicap is what it is and they want nothing to do with me. the club champion who shot a 62 last year and the year before has a 4 handicap. I just cant get myself to do that i have worked to hard to get that handicap to sandbag!!