Fort Bragg golf courses are horrible

[pavespawn]

At least in the Air Force it is the course that wins best in service that gets money for improvements. I always thought this was counter-intuitive but that is the way it is. Hurlburt Field won a few years back and got all new greens. I thought it was sad since I knew other mil courses like Maxwell that were terrible and needed the money to improve. This money is in addition to normal MWR funds so why not try to make all courses nice instead of the make the nice courses nicer?

[McGolf-Doggie]

Totally seperate funding man. MWR (the guys that operate the golf courses) work off of non-appropriated funds, which are completely seperate from the Army's funding for weapons, vehicles and development. MWR makes millions in profits each year here on Ft. Bragg, so money shouldn't be an issue at all.

MWR funding, I believe, mostly comes from PX, BX, NEX and MCX exchange sales, food court, Shoppette, Mini-Mart, gasoline and a host of other service activities. A certain percentage is held back by the exchange services for recapitalization (new stores, store improvements, etc.) and the rest of the profits are distributed according to a preset schedule, to Army FMWRC, Air Force Services, and so on.

Exchange system resale activities for the Army & Air Force Exchange Service (AAFES), the Navy Exchange Service Command (NEXCOM), the Marine Corps Exchanges (MCX) and the Coast Guard Exchange System (CGES) returned approximately $359 million in dividends to morale, welfare and recreation (MWR) activities for the 2008 fiscal year. AAFES 2009 Dividends to MWR were $261.6 million (down only a very, very small percentage (1.3 million) from 2008, which was not bad considering the recession hit AAFES hard for a good part of 2009): $157.2M to the Army $ 89.9M to the Air Force $ 13.9M to the Marine Corps $ 0.6M to the Navy NEXCOM and MCX, themselves, generated about $45.4 million and $48.7 million respectively in 2008, not sure off hand, what they did in 2009. From what I remember, and I don't have all my data at hand, a small percentage of exchange profits stay on base, in certain cases, but for the most part, the large stores in an exchange system have to subsidize the less profitable smaller installation stores in the networks, so that there is a PX, BX, NEX or MCX wherever the troops, sailors or airmen go. They can't close a store because it's not profitable like a Wal-Mart could. Regardless, funding should get to where it needs to go, whatever the size of the base. In a perfect world. But as the above poster showed, Air Force has its own approach to distribution of certain funds. Not sure it would surprise anyone though, if some installations had better fairway and greenskeeping than others. Sounds to me like Fort Bragg is just not getting the TLC, or they might have tried some methods of maintenance that didn't work, or they got hit by a mold blight. Played West Point last month and that was spectacularly good. The Head Pro and Course Superintendent do a great job there. I wish I'd heard this a while ago as I could have gotten your word in the ear of a former IMCOM Exec. Dir. who, to my mind, really cared about the service members' quality of life experience, to include golf. But that contact is gone from my life, for now, at least. I'll bring it to the attention of someone else I know who may be able to help, but the long way round, no promises. That said, a local civilian course I like to play went organic, and now it looks like the Serengeti desert in places. The weather has been brutal. My front garden also got hit by some mold, and the grass turned purple and died. There may be more factors in play from one month to the other at any given golf course, I'd guess.

[Bullitt5339]

Good Info right there.

I have played many military courses over the years, and most have been really nice courses. Typically, there's one very nice course on large posts, and one that's average. Fort Bragg, being the largest Army installation in the world (in population, not size), and with more General Officers than any other post in the world, I would expect the "Officer's Course", Ryder, to be outstanding. During the winter, I chalked it up to "winter golf", but it actually got worse as spring started, and kept getting worse. We play out there once a month for the Commanding General's Golf Scramble, but that's it. Stryker, which was horrible over the winter and spring, is finally getting some grass on the greens. Not good yet, but at least they're working on it.

[justahack]

In all my years of playing military courses, I have never seen any better than the Leilehua Golf Course in Hawaii.  It is not only the finest in the Army, it is the most challenging and beautiful course in the entire military!  And they recently renovated the course with the front nine now open and the new back nine opening next April.  If the back nine is anything like the new front nine, this will be the best course in all Hawaii including the resorts. Anyone who can get a chance to play Leilehua should not miss the opportunity.

[clubchamp]

My old job got me access to a couple bases in the D.C. area and most of them were in pretty good shape. I believe it was said already but the commanding officer makes a big difference in course conditions. If the commanding officer is a golfer you will see the course condition is much better then if the officer is not a golfer.

[inthehole]

I played Nellis AFB in Vegas last winter - really beat up course w/ literally more dirt than grass (imagine the NV heat has something to do with it).     Played West Point early this year & it was in top shape.    Picitinny Arsenal is a very  nice course & always in outstanding condition (a bit wet this year though).   Played McGuire AFB a couple times since & it's nice too, but looooong  ... Nellis was the only military dog track I've played.

[BML78]

My brother was stationed out at the Language Institute out in Monterey CA....he was transferred to Fort Bragg after, he wasn't very happy.  Talk about a drop off in golf courses.

[caniac6]

I used to live in Fayetteville, but I never played the courses at Ft. Bragg. I worked at Kings Grant, so that is where most of my golf was played. The only military course I have played was the one at Parris Island, SC. I had a buddy that was stationed at the Naval hospital in Beaufort,SC and he won Saturday tickets to the Masters, so we played on Friday and went to the Masters on Saturday. It was a great trip, but the course at Parris Island was so nice it would have been a good trip even if we didn't go to the Masters.

[pjwalsh606]

Yeah but if you can get yourself to some of the courses around pinehurst, i love pine needles! I love Donald Ross as a golf architect! He also designed my grandparent course down in Sarasota called Sarabay! Love the crowned greens! Very Challenging

[Bullitt5339]

There's a bunch of great courses in this area.  If you're willing to drive a 40 minutes or so, you can play some world class courses.  I drive 45 minutes each way to work, so 40 to play golf is nothing.

Played Stryker again on Friday and it was worse than ever.  Pray that you don't hit the ball in the center of the fairway, because there's no grass there.  You're better off in the rough.  Played 9 holes at Ryder today, and there was grass in the fairways, but the greens were horrible.  I chipped a ball to 6" from the hole, it stopped for 1/2 a second and then rolled 20ft back towards me off the green.

[Cgjohnst]

Yup, the Army does not take care of their courses. We had a pretty awesome course on Pope until the Army took over. They wouldn't pay for it and the AF definitely wasn't going to pay for a golf course to be run by the Army. It's grown over and no longer with us. RIP :( The two Bragg courses are pretty terrible. I will never, ever, ever play them after checking them out. I stopped by and talked to one of their employees. I asked him how often they mow the grass. His answer: "whenever we get around to it". Nice.

[onesome]

I think Fort Ord probably has the best military courses in the country, of course the base is closed now but those courses were just too good to let go.

[Cgjohnst]

I played Hickam a couple weeks ago. That one is a lot of fun.

[k-troop]

Military golf courses are driven by a number of funding-related factors.

In the continental US, every MWR program has to be self-sufficient.  The golf courses are part of that program.  Depending on the base, course, etc. the golf course is usually revenue generating--meaning that if it makes a profit, those profits are being bled off to support other programs.

The Army, in general, doesn't put a lot of priority (i.e. money) in its golf courses.  There are narrow exceptions for courses that are very well established and locally popular (Fort Sam Houston, i.e.), but I would imagine that those courses are generating more revenue than most, so they've got more to spend.  Even Fort Sam has gone well downhill in the last decade.

Hawaii and West Point courses were mentioned.  West Point has an entirely separate funding category--they are allowed to solicit donations, and the AOG, as a huge source of those donor funds, has a lot of say in how the facilities (especially athletic facilities) are maintained.  The WP golf course is phenomenal.  Overseas (Hawaii included) brings different MWR rules into play:  the overall MWR program can use more appropriated funds for different categories of activities.  Even if the golf course itself doesn't get appropriated funds, they get to keep more of what they make, because they're not supporting as many of the other area recreation programs.  I believe this is why Hawaii military courses (Leilehua, Klipper, Mamala Bay) are all very good, and better than some of the local daily-fee courses that charge 3-5x as much to play.

Bottom line:  Army courses suck.  I've played a lot of very good AF courses, and they seem to be better overall than Army.  I've only played a few Navy courses, but with so many oceanfront locations, they're bound to have some decent ones.  And whomever said that Fort Shafter (Nagorski) is a good course, your credibility is destroyed.  That is one of the worst golf courses, if not the worst, in the state.