How are hole handicaps determined? From which tees?

[chriskzoo]

I play at a local course and the hole handicaps just seem way off. It has 3 9's, so the handicaps are just per that 9 holes - I have attached the scorecards for reference. (It's Tanglewood Golf Course in South Lyon, MI if anyone has played there)

WEST COURSE
Hole #2 - 182 yards, water right and short, wetlands short and left. #9 handicap
Hole # - 155 yards, wide trap in front of the green, but no real trouble. #8 handicap

or

SOUTH COURSE
Hole #4 - 430 yard sharp dog-leg left, creek across the fairway if you hit it straight, water right and short of the green. #8 handicap
Hole #7 - 377 yard dogleg right with water all along the right, plays shorter than that. I usually hit #3 hybrid and a 9-iron to the green. #1 handicap!?

The second pair is the most confusing to me.

[alf174]

This doesn't answer you specifically (I've played there too), but I've heard that the process for creating handicaps for courses is pretty complicated & relies on computers and iterative calculations (I may have heard wrong).

The effective playing length for each golfer is derived by adding the measured yardage of the course to any adjustments made for elevation, roll, forced lay-ups, wind, and altitude. Adjustments are made to the measured yardage if there is any elevation change from tee to green (elevation), if there is a prevailing wind and is it a factor (wind), if the fairway landing areas are hard or soft or if the tee shots land into an upslope or on a downslope (roll), if an obstacle or combination of obstacles prevent a golfer from playing a full length shot (forced lay-up), and if the course is located more than 2000 feet above sea level (altitude). The obstacle stroke value is a numerical evaluation of all obstacles (topography, fairway, green target, recovery and rough, bunkers, out of bounds, water, trees, green surface, and psychology) on the golf course. It is also highly probable that the Obstacle stroke value of the two golfers will be different. Generally, the nearer the obstacles are to the landing zones the higher the rating values. * Topography-A factor of how mounds and slopes affect the stance or lie in the fairway landing zone and whether the shot to the green is uphill or downhill. * Fairway-A measurement of the probability of hitting the fairway. * Green Target-A measurement of the probability of hitting the green from the fairway landing zones. The relationship between the length of shot played and size of the green determines these values. (i.e., long shots to small greens will generate higher values than short shots to large greens) * Recovery and Rough-A measurement of the probability of missing the tee shot landing zone or green, and the difficulty of recovering if either is missed. * Bunkers-A measurement of the effect bunkers have on play based upon their proximity to target areas and the difficulty of recovery. * Out of Bounds-A measurement of how much the out of bounds will come into play based upon the proximity of the boundary to the fairway landing zone or green * Water Hazards-A measurement of how much the water will come into play based upon its proximity to the fairway landing zone or green. * Trees-A measurement of how trees effect the play of the two players based upon the size and density of the trees, their distance from the center of the fairway or green, the difficulty of recovering from the trees, and the length of the hole. * Green Surface-A measurement of the difficulty of a green from a putting standpoint. Speed of the green and surface contouring are the main factors. * Psychology-a measurement of the cumulative effect of the other nine obstacles.

Just a thought, every time I've had a question for GAM , they've replied in a timely fashion. You might steer the question to the GAM Course Rating Associate, Suzanne Farris at sfarris@gam.org . just a thought.

[iacas]

This doesn't answer you specifically (I've played there too), but I've heard that the process for creating handicaps for courses is pretty complicated & relies on computers and iterative calculations (I may have heard wrong).

The best way to handicap holes is to send a ton of scorecards in to the USGA or something and then they'll mathematically determine the holes where the higher handicappers most need the strokes.

For example, you know how the easier holes are the 15, 16, 17, and 18 handicap holes? Well there's one nearby here that's 260 yards and is still handicap hole #17... because both single digit handicappers AND high handicappers tend to make a 4 on it. Additionally, "higher" handicappers often "need" the strokes on par fives (typically 1-4 on the card) because they are likely to make 6 while a lower handicapper is likely to make 4 or 5.

[MSchumacher]

#7 has water on the right and many people slice the ball so maybe a lot of people put their ball in the drink?

[The Recreational Golfer]

As I understand it, the hole handicap is determined by the average difference between scores made by scratch golfers and bogey golfers. The greater the difference, the lower the handicap number. The smaller the difference, the higher the number.

So the number 1 handicap hole on a course is not necessarily the hardest hole on the course, but the one that catches up a poorer golfer more often than it does the better golfer. It's the hole on which a good golfer is most likely to have to give a stroke.

Did I get that right?

[Fourputt]

You need to know 1-18 (with odd handicaps on the front 9 and even on the back) to play a proper match. I guess I'd have to renumber the handicap holes with odd numbers 1-17 to pair with the relative 1-9 ranking on the front 9, then do the same with even numbers 2-18 on the back. That means that the #1 card handicap on the front would still be the #1 stroke hole, #2 card handicap would change to #3, #3 card handicap would be #5, etc. On the back, #1 card handicap would be #2, #2 card handicap would become #4, etc. That is the only way I can see to conduct an 18 hole match (or play skins when giving strokes), on a course which is rated that way.

I misread the OP's question.... oops. Holes are handicapped by the likelihood that a bogey golfer would need a stroke to match a scratch golfer. Sometimes the harder holes are actually the lower handicap holes because a scratch player is just about as likely to make bogey as a bogey golfer. AT times the difference between holes can be very small, but they still have to be ranked, so they might even just draw straws to decide the ranking between 2 or even 3 holes. Also, sometimes difficulty is relative. What seems to be a hard hole to you may not rank that way for a population of players.

[B-Con]

Sidenote: I've never seen a scorecard with pace of play on it. Neat.

As I understand it, the hole handicap is determined by the average difference between scores made by scratch golfers and bogey golfers. The greater the difference, the lower the handicap number. The smaller the difference, the higher the number.

Excellent question. I had previously thought that when they determined the CR and SR for a course each hole got it's own rating, which were summed to give the overall ratings, then the holes were ranked for handicap by their individual rating. But it would seem from what iacas posted above that this is not correct.

[saevel25]

Handicaps are done in a few ways that i have seen like above, were each nine is 1-9. I know some courses will give the hardest hole 1, then switch the hardest hole on the next 9, and alternate back and forth so the odds are on 1 nine and the evens are on the other. Some will just rank them straight up, 1-18.

I think its usually up to the course. but i think long par 4's are most common for high handicaps.

[laconic517]

As far as tees go, I thought they were always done from the "white" tees, whatever those are deemed to be.

[RemyM]

They should be from the tees that are most played. There is also leeway that the number 1 handicap hole should not be at the start or finish of the front 9. It should fall between holes 3 and 7 so that the stroke will come into play before a 9 hole match is over but will not come into play should an 18 hole match go extra holes. It's all laid out in rule 17 of the handicap system manual.
http://www.usga.org/Rule-Books/Handi...anual/Rule-17/

[WUTiger]

There is also leeway that the number 1 handicap hole should not be at the start or finish of the front 9. ...

This is a rethink of design philosophy from the early 1900s. At Normandie Park Golf Club (oldest public course west of the Mississippi), No. 1 HDCP is the first hole, a 446 yd. par 4. The Foulis brothers believed that if the first hole was the hardest, all the others would seem easier.

At a course down in Enid, Oklahoma, old timers claimed the original 1 HDCP was No. 18, a 240 yd. par 3 with a lake from tee to the front of the green. Supposedly many golfers had to pick up because they couldn't finish the hole. (The hole disappeared during a redesign sometime after World War II).

[The Recreational Golfer]

They should be from the tees that are most played. There is also leeway that the number 1 handicap hole should not be at the start or finish of the front 9. It should fall between holes 3 and 7 so that the stroke will come into play before a 9 hole match is over but will not come into play should an 18 hole match go extra holes. It's all laid out in rule 17 of the handicap system manual.

I guess the raters missed that on my course, because the #1 is the first hole, and the #2 is the tenth.

[RemyM]

This is a rethink of design philosophy from the early 1900s. At Normandie Park Golf Club (oldest public course west of the Mississippi), No. 1 HDCP is the first hole, a 446 yd. par 4. The Foulis brothers believed that if the first hole was the hardest, all the others would seem easier.

From a design standpoint that's fine, but from a handicap stroke allocation standpoint it shouldn't be assigned the number 1 handicap.

[RemyM]

I guess the raters missed that on my course, because the #1 is the first hole, and the #2 is the tenth.

The raters or even the results of scorecard collection could very well indicate that it deserves the number 1 handicap, but it shouldn't get it.