Distance study in this month of Golf Digest

[golfro]

hell, i even have a hard time carrying 280 with accuracy...who does? Tiger and Phil sure as hell don't.

[soloredd]

I think a common mistake is people use their GPS and see they hit it 270 and figure "Hell, I hit it 270." Thing is, pros can CARRY it 270. Major difference. You aren't going to get huge roll out every time so that 270 might be a 250 next time.

Folks need to go to PGA events and actually see these guys play the ball. It's a sight to behold.

[Shindig]

I think a common mistake is people use their GPS and see they hit it 270 and figure "Hell, I hit it 270." Thing is, pros can CARRY it 270. Major difference. You aren't going to get huge roll out every time so that 270 might be a 250 next time.

And the

sound . I've played with many low handicaps, and many bombers of various handicaps, and the ball sounds different when they hit it versus how it sounds when a non-bomber hits it. And then there's the huge difference when even a short TOUR hitter hits it.

[Shanks A Million]

I think a common mistake is people use their GPS and see they hit it 270 and figure "Hell, I hit it 270." Thing is, pros can CARRY it 270. Major difference. You aren't going to get huge roll out every time so that 270 might be a 250 next time.

Well, that and the obvious discconect with reality. A person may drive the ball 300 yards on occasion, I'm not saying no one can do it, it's not too hard to occasionally bust one, but most of a handicapper's drives are going to be in the 220 range. I've probably seen more people hit golf balls than most people will in a lifetime, and I can count on one hand the number of people who were able to reliably hit the ball 300 yards.

To hit a ball 300 yards, assuming regular conditions, you need a swing speed around 120 mph. I swing right around 110, and I can't hit a ball 300 yards. I can hit it 285 on a good shot, but not 300. I'm more in touch with reality however, 285 is my great shot, not my average. I've hit a few well over 300 yards, but those were anomolies, not to be considered for anything but entertainment value. In the end, I drive the ball around 250-260 yards on average, on a good day. I consider that to be awesome, and have met very few people who could outdrive me. The disconnect is the idea of where the ball really goes. I used to be a 30 handicap, and bust balls out left and right, plain off the course, and I was certain I could hit it 300. Then reality set in, I got better, and started belting it even farther, and started measuring. Reality was tough to swallow. My old "300" yard drives measured about 200 when I actually measured them out, maybe 220. Today I can hit it 285, and I know what 300 really is, and I can tell you, it's extremely rare. And my swing speed, obviously so low compared to other forum members, was only good enough to get me fitted with tour X flex high kick shafts, which my pro tells me to verify to make sure it plays to its proper flex, and not too soft. The pro and the clubfitter both said my clubhead speed was abnormally high.

[GolfBear]

I'm actually right in the respects you disagree with. Sure, it's anecdotal, but a lot of people who play sports on a regular basis have been heard saying things like, "I'll play golf when I retire".

Unless you're willing to go out and do a detailed analysis of amateur golfers with a variety of handicaps then it remains your opinion. An athlete stating they'll "play golf when they retire" is meaningless.

[Shanks A Million]

Unless you're willing to go out and do a detailed analysis of amateur golfers with a variety of handicaps then it remains your opinion. An athlete stating they'll "play golf when they retire" doesn't mean a thing.

That's vagueness at its best. "I have a friend who says if we tax inheritance then Martian spiders will come eat our babies." What further proof do you need? That's called a fallacy of hasty generalization and/or fallacy of unreliable source, among others.

[sean_miller]

Unless you're willing to go out and do a detailed analysis of amateur golfers with a variety of handicaps then it remains your opinion. An athlete stating they'll "play golf when they retire" is meaningless.

It's called, there are a lot of good athletes in Canada, and more people per capita play golf in Canada than any country in the world (a fact) yet we have very few successful golf professionals.

A lot of people who suck at sports would have quit tennis, or hockey, or baseball, etc, but they just keep on coming back to golf for more punishment. If you choose not to believe shii++ier athletes tend to gravitate toward golf, c'est la vie.

[Lefty-Golfer]

And the

Yes...damn need more letters to post

[msd3075]

The disconnect is the idea of where the ball really goes. I used to be a 30 handicap, and bust balls out left and right, plain off the course, and I was certain I could hit it 300. Then reality set in, I got better, and started belting it even farther, and started measuring. Reality was tough to swallow. My old "300" yard drives measured about 200 when I actually measured them out, maybe 220. Today I can hit it 285, and I know what 300 really is, and I can tell you, it's extremely rare. And my swing speed, obviously so low compared to other forum members, was only good enough to get me fitted with tour X flex high kick shafts, which my pro tells me to verify to make sure it plays to its proper flex, and not too soft. The pro and the clubfitter both said my clubhead speed was abnormally high.

Not to sound rude, but unless your pro is used to fitting clubs to old ladies, there is no way someone would say a 110 mph clubhead speed is "abnormally high". Yes, it is significantly above average, but it is by no means as high as you seem to lead on.

[GolfBear]

It's called, there are a lot of good athletes in Canada, and more people per capita play golf in Canada than any country in the world (a fact) yet we have very few successful golf professionals.

One of the nicest things about the internet is the ability to cite facts, something you're clearly unwilling to do. Show me where Canada has the highest rate of golfers per capita.

I tend to believe that honor belongs to Scotland. They have a population of only 5 million and more courses per capita than any country in the world.

[msd3075]

One of the nicest things about the internet is the ability to cite facts, something you're clearly unwilling to do. Show me where Canada has the highest rate of golfers per capita.

In case you didn't know, 80% of all stats are made up (this one included), and the internet is full of them.

[sean_miller]

One of the nicest things about the internet is the ability to cite facts, something you're clearly unwilling to do. Show me where Canada has the highest rate of golfers per capita.

I tend to believe that's what appears in Wikipedia as well. I tend to believe that statistic is based on people registered in local or national golf unions.

The statistic I refer to is one put out by Golf Canada (the RCGA) and they actually use the term "core golfers". IIRC, this includes people who play greater than 28 rounds per year. Using that criteria, I'm not actually an avid golfer. Coincidentally, I see a lot of people listed on the RCGA network with valid handicap indexes who are yet to enter a single score for 2010, so they're technically gofers, but not included in the RCGA statistic. In other words, cram it.

[Fat Slice]

A bogeyman? There are several things wrong with your conclusion:

It would be more likely that someone would vote anonymously that they averaged longer than they would post out in the open. Be that as it may, let's see...

Do any 20+ handicappers want to stand up and report that they AVERAGE 275 yards with the driver? Anyone? Bueller? Let's get a count going. I still think people here are getting upset about a group of people that either doesn't exists or only has 1 or 2 members.

[golfro]

perhaps not in this thread, but you always see it...

Joe Shmo, 28 handicap:
"hey guys, i'm looking to buy a new driver. I don't know much about my swing or golf for that matter, but I know I drive 280 yards on average. any recommendations?"

PS: Where'd that one guy go who claimed to hit his 3 wood 300 yards?

[BostonSully]

It would be more likely that someone would vote anonymously that they averaged longer than they would post out in the open. Be that as it may, let's see...

im 20+ and I average a good 250+ with alot going 270.... Now not keeping those in the fairway and 3putting is for my 20+ hcp.

[Shanks A Million]

im 20+ and I average a good 250+ with alot going 270.... Now not keeping those in the fairway and 3putting is for my 20+ hcp.

Well, there's one. The problem is designating that 300 yard mark. Many high handicaps know they don't hit it 300, but even claiming to hit it an average of 280 or even 265 is hard to believe. Notice, they all have the same excuse of "3 putting their way to a 20 handicap." It's a fun myth, but it's just not true. Putting is not hard, it's just perceived that way. If you put the ball 10 feet from the hole, two putting is almost gaurenteed. If you put it on the green, a two putt is a good bet. Even if you hit every green in regulation, then 3 putted half of the holes, you've just shot 81.

But when you go through and look at the swings of numerous players, almost universally the swing bottom reflects the handicap. I've looked at many swings here, and found most of them to be fairly accurate to the handicap. Here's some ones I've looked at: Around a 15 or so: Me, around a 7: Around an 11: Around a +5 (tour pro): You can pretty clearly see that the bottom of the swing arc is very closely related to handicap. More shaft lean at impact means more consistency. More flip means more timing, and more timing means less consistency, which means poorer scoring. Putting is what it takes to go from scratch to pro, or maybe 5 to scratch, but most people can putt fairly well, it's a relatively simply, fairly natural thing compared to the full swing. You can all try to challenge this theory, but you will probably fit your handicap just right.

[sean_miller]

Well, there's one. The problem is designating that 300 yard mark. Many high handicaps know they don't hit it 300, but even claiming to hit it an average of 280 or even 265 is hard to believe. Notice, they all have the same excuse of "3 putting their way to a 20 handicap." It's a fun myth, but it's just not true. Putting is not hard, it's just perceived that way. If you put the ball 10 feet from the hole, two putting is almost gaurenteed. If you put it on the green, a two putt is a good bet. Even if you hit every green in regulation, then 3 putted half of the holes, you've just shot 81.

I can't see the images on my browser, but I suspect you're adding evidence to the 250+ yard average and 20+ index with the bottom of the swing study you're conducting. Of what relevance is the bottom of the swing, when he's swinging a driver to hit a ball perched on a tee? If he's struggling with irons, as your post probably implies, wouldn't that just add more evidence that he can hit the ball off a tee, but struggles to hit GIR?

Besides, who's hitting the ball to 10 feet? Or do you mean on his chip shot? A 2-putt from there would give him a bogey. A good score for a 20 handicap. How many bogey golfers are hitting 9 greens in regulation? I can give you the benefit of the doubt regarding your putting prowess, but are you saying there's less skill involved with gauging weight with a putter on a variety of greens, than in smashing a ball off a tee with a 100% driver swing?

[Shanks A Million]

I can give you the benefit of the doubt regarding your putting prowess, but are you saying there's less skill involved with gauging weight with a putter on a variety of greens, than in smashing a ball off a tee with a 100% driver swing?

Yes. Putting is easy. The driver is moving 120 mph and you have to hit a spot the size of a dime to hit it 300 yards. That takes a tremendous amount of skill.

And to answer your question, flipping a driver is still flipping. Time it perfect, and it will go, but fail to do that, and it's going nowhere. A high handicap can poke one out to 300 on occasion, but will average much less.