Officially Fixed my push fade, for real this time....

[Valleygolfer]

I just want to say it has taken a year and a half to learn enough about the swing to really figure out what was going wrong.......the many things that is....and still a few residual ones... This journey really made me understand why so many amateurs waste so much money on quick fix gizmos. I still need some consistency and I won't say I won't slice or push or even hook balls every so often but at least I know why and how to correct it. So YAY!

[trickymicky69]

okay, so how did you do it?

[Zeph]

Push-fade is a really easy fix, close the clubface a bit. If you swing over the top, you will still fade, slice, pull and pull-hook it, but you can prevent the push-fade by making sure the clubface is never open.

[vct33]

  Zeph said:

Push-fade is a really easy fix, close the clubface a bit. If you swing over the top, you will still fade, slice, pull and pull-hook it, but you can prevent the push-fade by making sure the clubface is never open.

Yeah, but that's not a fix it's a cover up. I get into funks where I come over the top some and I don't want to put a bandaid on it by closing the face or using a strong right hand grip. I want to get the swing back on plane.

[Zeph]

Push-fade is an open clubface at impact, which cause the ball to start out to the right. By closing it (to where it is square), you have removed the push. It's not a bandaid fix, but rather something you'd want. Except if you get a swing going very much in-to-out and need it for the draw of course.

Like I said, he still got the OTT, which will send the ball all over the place.

[Valleygolfer]

  trickymicky69 said:

okay, so how did you do it?

Well it wasn't just one thing but the deal sealer was learning to activate the hips first and keeping my weight forward. My arms were to fast for my body and I could rarely keep from coming over the top. Two other aspects which helped was slowing my swing down, slower than you would think or think you would feel comfortable with and finally tucking my right elbow and almost felt like exaggerating an inside out swing which with my swing made it a normal follow through.

It may not be perfect but it has some consistency and that is crucial to my game right now. On the range I was dead straight on most shots and periodic light fade or draw. Of course I still have a few errant shots but they are not as outlandish. Plus I finally found a stance I can replicate and be comfortable with.

[melchior]

@Zeph: I don't know why you'd want to close the clubface though; (the figurative) you get more power from the "push" aspect of it, now you just need to swing properly (or align yourself to the left) to hit it in the fairway. As long as you have a push and the distance, I don't know why you'd want to change a predictable shot pattern but that's just me.

[Valleygolfer]

  melchior said:

@Zeph: I don't know why you'd want to close the clubface though; (the figurative) you get more power from the "push" aspect of it, now you just need to swing properly (or align yourself to the left) to hit it in the fairway. As long as you have a push and the distance, I don't know why you'd want to change a predictable shot pattern but that's just me.

There was no consistency with the push-fade, it was way to extreme to use on the course and even when I tried to aim far left it would still go to the same place. All I can say about that is that I must have brain issues, so the best case scenario for me was to learn to hit straight consistently. I would periodically hit it dead straight and if I aimed it to the left it would be way off course so in the back of my mind I was always fearful of doing that and it would unconsciously manufacture a swing that would produce a much worse push. Go figure.

[Zeph]

Because a swing going out-to-in combined with an open clubface usually results in a shot going 50 yards forward and 100 yards to the right. At least keeping the club square makes it somewhat more predictable and give you a bit less sidespin. Of course fixing the swing path is recommended, but in either case, having a clubface that is square at impact will make things easier on you.

[Valleygolfer]

  Zeph said:

Because a swing going out-to-in combined with an open clubface usually results in a shot going 50 yards forward and 100 yards to the right. At least keeping the club square makes it somewhat more predictable and give you a bit less sidespin. Of course fixing the swing path is recommended, but in either case, having a clubface that is square at impact will make things easier on you.

I agree with Zeph since I have played with this type of ball flight so long I do not care for it at all. Having this type of swing path screws up other clubs in the bag.

[colin007]

a true push fade is an in to out swing, with a club face just slightly open to that line. club face just slightly closed (but still open to the target line) gives you the much desired push draw. zeph knows what hes talking about.

[melchior]

  colin007 said:

a true push fade is an in to out swing, with a club face just slightly open to that line. club face just slightly closed (but still open to the target line) gives you the much desired push draw. zeph knows what hes talking about.

Exactly what I was thinking. In-to-out swing; but curves right instead of left (for a righty) was what I initially assumed.

Though if it's an in-to-out swing with an open face to force the push then I'd want to fix that as well.

[TN94z]

  Zeph said:

Because a swing going out-to-in combined with an open clubface usually results in a shot going 50 yards forward and 100 yards to the right. At least keeping the club square makes it somewhat more predictable and give you a bit less sidespin. Of course fixing the swing path is recommended, but in either case, having a clubface that is square at impact will make things easier on you.

So what happens to the guy when he starts closing his club face and then he gets his swing on the correct plane and correct at impact? What does the closed club face do to the outcome then? If you are suggesting that he closes his club face, then goes through his normal swing which will produce better results, this is where the bandaid term is coming from. If you close the club face, at address, to compensate for coming over the top with a slightly opened clubface which produces the push fade...then you are making a bandaid fix.

Not saying that anyone is wrong, I am just saying this is where the "bandaid" talk is coming from.

[Zeph]

  TN94z said:

So what happens to the guy when he starts closing his club face and then he gets his swing on the correct plane and correct at impact? What does the closed club face do to the outcome then? If you are suggesting that he closes his club face, then goes through his normal swing which will produce better results, this is where the bandaid term is coming from. If you close the club face, at address, to compensate for coming over the top with a slightly opened clubface which produces the push fade...then you are making a bandaid fix.

I said to close it from open to square, not getting it closed to the alignment. Could perhaps call it "square up" or "turn the clubface square".

With an in-to-out swing and square club, you'll have a small straight-draw, or just a straight shot. Depending on how far in-to-out the club move. I know what a bandaid fix is, but I would say that an open clubface at impact is a fault. Except if you get the swing going in-to-out and need it a bit open to get the desired draw shape. As long as he keeps hitting over the top, an open club face is only going to hurt more. Even with a nice in-to-out or in-square-in swing, the sidespin right to left won't be a lot to talk about. An adjustment of the clubface to open at that point is very small.

[MJP]

  Zeph said:

I said to close it from open to square, not getting it closed to the alignment.

Would a good way to close the face be to take a stronger left hand grip? That way you aren't holding the club neutral and addressing the ball closed to the target line to fix your push fade.

And wouldn't you need it closed to hit a draw with an in to out? In to out with an open is basically the swing fault this thread is about. Either that or out to in with an extremely open face.

[Zeph]

Depends what you are talking about it being relative to. An in-to-out swingpath means you are swinging to the right of your alignment. To hit a draw with that swing, you need an open clubface relative to your alignment . The clubface must of course be closed to the swingpath, or you would not get a draw.

The reason for an open clubface at impact can be many, but since he swings OTT also, cupped left wrist could be a reason. If the grip is faulty, improving it would help, but I can't say if he could be having a too strong or weak either hand.

The OPs swing is not in-to-out with an open clubface, it is an out-to-in swingpath with an open clubface. This is why he is hitting slice, pull, push-fade, pull-hook. Based on his explanation of the changes and new ball flight, it looks like he managed to get the swing moving more in-to-out, which was his biggest problem really. It is not unheard of to struggle with an open clubface when hit swing OTT, making some changes in weight and path can go a long way to fix both problems.

[MJP]

Wouldn't a very open face (always talking relative to swing path) and an in to out swing also be a swing that results in a a push fade or push slice? How do you know which one he is suffering from without seeing video of his swing?

It's easier to assume it's an out to in problem considering most higher cappers do have that problem.

[Zeph]

  MJP said:

Wouldn't a very open face (always talking relative to swing path) and an in to out swing also be a swing that results in a a push fade or push slice? How do you know which one he is suffering from without seeing video of his swing?

The ball will always fade with a clubface open to the swingpath, yes. The "push" part comes from the clubface being open to your alignment. Someone swinging over the top with a square clubface is also hitting a fade, but a straight fade since the clubface is square to the alignment at impact. If we didn't use push/straight/pull, all shots would be either a fade, straight or draw (or slice/straight/hook).

I assume his swing to be out-to-in because he is hitting the shots most commonly found in a swing moving out-to-in. Actually, you can't hit a slice with an in-to-out swingpath, not pull-slice and straight-slice at least. Only slice (or fade) you can hit is a push-fade. But of course, he can be identifying the ball flights wrong. Only a video would give evidence to the issue.

  MJP said:

It's easier to assume it's an out to in problem considering most higher cappers do have that problem.

That's what I've been saying all along.