What is the root cause of the standard slice? (starts straight + slices)

[Williamevanl]

What needs fixed first?

[Stretch]

Outside - in swing path.

[uttexas]

starts straight=club face straight at impact and maximal ball compression

then slices=club head moving out to in at impact/club head impacts ball in the front part of the path circle/path circle too far back relative to ball impact.

[The Recreational Golfer]

Isn't the Mark 1 Mod 0 slice a ball that starts out left and then curves right?

[Jell0b0y]

From what I read and understand your club face is square to the target since your shot started off straight but you swing path is outside in putting slice spin on it so it would be your path. I am having the opposite issue, my swing path is inside out and I square the club face at impact and it cause a straight draw (have to get brave enough to open the face a little at setup).

[sean_miller]

What needs fixed first?

It depends. Maybe you need to work on your alignment and routing the club more down the intended target line. But maybe using your same swing, and a bit more closed club face at impact, would turn your push slice into a subtle easily controlled powerfade. I've seen plenty of decent players make that work.

[shortstop20]

PATH.

Been there done that........I fought this exact shot for about 2 years when I first started playing until I ignored all of this BS about "releasing the club" and worked on my path......BAM! Instant push draw.

[HAVOC]

ADMIN: Post stricken and/or hidden as incorrect. Please see next post.

The Laws of Ball flight

Here are the 5 ball flight laws that determine the flight of every shot that we hit. If we can learn to perfect these influences within the swing we can influence the golf ball to do what we want it to do. The ball does not always tell us what we want to hear, but it never lies. The ball is always reacting to one or more of these influences. Fixing your ball flight will come from correcting one or more of these faults.

Golf Club Path
Golf Club Face Angle
Angle of Approach
Golf Clubhead Speed
Centeredness of hit on the golf club face


Path of the Golf Club
Greatest influence on golf ball-flight:
Initial Direction

Set up flaw:
Alignment, Ball position, Grip,

Greatest influence from the swing:
Shoulder rotation, too slow or too fast not returning to square shoulder position at impact.

Clubface Angle
Greatest Influence on ball-flight:
Curvature of the ball in the air.

Greatest Set up Flaw:
Grip, Aim, Alignment.

Greatest influence from the swing:
Manipulation of the hands.

Clubhead Speed
Greatest influence on ball flight:
Distance.

Greatest influence set-up:
Grip, Alignment, Ball Position

Greatest influence from the swing:
Release, Forearm rotation, length of arms, strength, co-ordination, line of compression, applied force from pivot of the mid-section and linkage of the mechanics.

[iacas]

Path of the Golf Club

Wrong. You're using the "old ball flight laws" which many believed but which were never, ever correct.

http://thesandtrap.com/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

[Williamevanl]

I was having a discussion with someone and they said: if you take someone that is hitting an open face slice (push slice) and you have them swing more in to out it will cause them to miss even further right. Is there any truth to this?

Also is it the case that people generally develop an ott swing because their clubface is open to begin with which in turn causes them to swing more and more left or do people generally just start with an ott swing?

Thanks!

[sean_miller]

I was having a discussion with someone and they said: if you take someone that is hitting an open face slice (push slice) and you have them swing more in to out it will cause them to miss even further right. Is there any truth to this?

My experience with chronic slicers is they started out with a fade that got worse over time. Two guys in particular really slash across the ball. It seemed logical to me until I read a book by John Jacobs and interviews with Norman and Nicklaus (this was a long time ago). Once you get it, the other way doesn't make sense. I mean, if aiming farther left is making the ball go farther right, maybe I should try aiming way to the right and see what happens - eureka - a good swing is somewhere in the middle.

[slicer2scratch]

First post and I satrted this in another forum....
I respect all opinions...
Path and face contricute to a slice we all know that ...

However the root cause is a face that is open! The face at some point was open to the path golfer gets tired of ball going right and starts getting there path worse and worse outside in...

See I have went from at 17-18 took up this game as an average hacker/slicer ..WORKED my butt of to become good enough to help others in this game and that is what I do on a regular basis now!
I know what it takes to make an avergae game better...
Many know the ball flight laws on here ..HOWEVER its the underlying causes of certain things...

Ultimately we would love to fix both path and face ... Usually the path doesnt get much better until the face is fixed first... AS our average player who knows nothing or maybe caresnothing about ball flight laws ...sees the ball go right and then starts swining more left with a high spun open right shoulder as the instinctive correction

[jamo]

Also is it the case that people generally develop an ott swing because their clubface is open to begin with which in turn causes them to swing more and more left or do people generally just start with an ott swing?

I've heard this argument before, but wouldn't that cause a push fade rather than the straight fade that they title of this thread indicates?

[Williamevanl]

Jamo, this was an additional question to go with my poll sorry, they are two separate scenarios.

Ultimately we would love to fix both path and face ... Usually the path doesnt get much better until the face is fixed first... AS our average player who knows nothing or maybe caresnothing about ball flight laws ...sees the ball go right and then starts swining more left with a high spun open right shoulder as the instinctive correction

Can you elaborate a little more about why you can't change the path without first correcting the club face angle(with target line)

[iacas]

However the root cause is a face that is open! The face at some point was open to the path golfer gets tired of ball going right and starts getting there path worse and worse outside in...

Most people slice with the path, period. Upwards of 90% or so. So no, I disagree. Open to the path always, but open to the target, no.

[kurisu]

as iacas and others said, it's path, it's not open for debate, this is a fact.

The problem is to make veteran chronic slicers that were told the old ball flight laws to swing from in to out (i.e. send the club head to the "right" for a right hander). Most of those people are so afraid to send the ball even more right that they think they should close the face more… Recently, my coach got a student, a senior guy that went all the way down to a 14 hcp with a huge straight slice. This guy's previous coaches and Golf Digest hammered him with the old "starts on the path, curves on the face" bullsh*t and my teacher is really trying to convince and re-route him to swing in-to-out but the guy just won't believe that his clubface is dead square at impact, even when I showed the guy a slow motion of his swing down the line with an obvious over-the-top move…

Another story is one of my clients with whom I went to play two weeks ago. The guy is hitting this nasty pull slice. You should have seen his club position at address: he closes the clubface almost 45º! I asked him why he was doing that and he said "I want the ball to curve left". I tried to explain why this wouldn't work and he replied "no offense, but you've been playing for what, a year? I've been playing for 15 years, I think I know better…"

[uttexas]

As the direction of the thread has shifted, I'll say the problem is almost always the path. With our excellent human stereoscopic vision and well honed eye/hand coordination and position sense, most people (even beginners) are good at hitting the ball with a square club face.

[slicer2scratch]

ALSO HE POSTED THE POLL WRONG ANYWAYS!
it should have stated what is the root cause of a slice an open face or path>?

NOT open to the TRAGET LINE! open to the path or path itself what is the root cause>?

If you swing out to in and the clubface is closed to that path (wether you agree this may help your swing in the long run or not) and wether its a good shot or good swing...ITS GOING LEFT! which is not a slice >!

Therefore there is only ONE way a ball can slice if the face is open...

I have stated and will state for those in detail why this is the start to ridding your slice forever (with good shots)....however at face value yes the ball would go left in this scenario however just proving a point!