What is the root cause of the standard slice? (starts straight + slices)

[iacas]

NOT open to the TRAGET LINE! open to the path or path itself what is the root cause>?

Path relative to target line, clubface relative to target line. That's the poll. I agree it could have been worded better but that's how I took it.

90% of the time the face is fine, but the path is badly out to in.

[jamo]

ALSO HE POSTED THE POLL WRONG ANYWAYS!

Since you're a lefty is this all reversed?

[Williamevanl]

This post was started because:
Originally Posted by SlicetoScratch:
...You guys fix your open face slicers with a path thats more inside out....and you will get a start right and slice even worse.... Ill fix my slicers face first, then Yes they may get a pull, or even a pull draw and then if they dont fix the path themselves then ill fix that.... Your open face inside out or nuetral path swingers will give up in 2 swings let alone try it on the course...

(I couldn't help but send him here, especially after he said I would know this if I were a golf instructor)

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/...ules-question/

[Shanks A Million]

I love the slice discussion. I occasionally hook the bejesus out of the ball. I also have a face that's open at impact, and a path that's severely inside out when I do it. When I'm hitting hooks, my divots go well out to the right, and my face at impact is clearly open on video. I love watching slicers try and try and try and try to fix their slice by shutting the face. I just smile, and proceed to hit a huge hook, and then when they ask how I did it, tell them I swung well out to the right. They tell me I'm just closing the face and go on trying their way. They never fix their slice. It's sad. Ignorance is bliss I guess.

To all of you who slice. Swing from your right hip out to the right of the target. You will not be able to do it enough. Even if you slice more, keep doing it.

[iacas]

s2s, it comes down to this...

90% of golfers (maybe more) slice with a face that's square to or closed to the target at impact. Their single biggest problem, by far, is a path that's too far out to in. Fixing their face first will make their shots worse, while fixing their path first will make their shots better.

This poll specifically asks about a shot that starts straight and slices. It's not the face that's the problem in that equation.

[kurisu]

To all of you who slice. Swing from your right hip out to the right of the target. You will not be able to do it enough. Even if you slice more, keep doing it.

A good image right there.

[Williamevanl]

s2s, it comes down to this...

Curious though Iacas, if someone was hitting a push slice, what would you fix first then?

[kurisu]

Curious though Iacas, if someone was hitting a push slice, what would you fix first then?

Since iacas starts by teaching a push draw, guess what… he'd still fix the path first. No matter how you slice it (pun intended), and unless your clubface is so open that you're leading with the hosel (i.e. shank), path is the main problem in 90% of golfers and that's what needs to be fixed first.

[slicer2scratch]

Maybe this gentleman can explain it better than I can...

[Williamevanl]

Lol, this guy is getting upset I think:

Originally Posted By Slicer2SCratch:
There are plenty of begining golfers that swing under plane...If you tought more and ran your 8 handicap mouth less you would see that...more often than not they push slice it if they even make devent contact at all....
I would say MORE are outside in but there are a share that swing under plane.

(really?)

[Stretch]

Curious though Iacas, if someone was hitting a push slice, what would you fix first then?

Just tell them to set up a bit further left.

Nothing wrong with a nice push fade.

[Shanks A Million]

s2s, it comes down to this...

Only 90%? Maybe 90% of current golfers, but over a lifetime, probably more like 95% of golfers suffer from it. I did, I know nearly everyone here did. I used to have a wicked slice. Convincing myself to swing from the inside, as weak as it feels, is what fixed it. Now I'm part of your 10%. I'm

under plane, in fact, as you yourself have pointed out. So, while I once fell into that category, I now don't.

[slicer2scratch]

Underlying cause

[jamo]

Underlying cause

I have to admit, the moment that I saw this thread this is where I thought it was going. Not that I agree with it, but I coulda told you what he was getting at by the phrase "root cause" in the title.

[Williamevanl]

So if I have a ott swing with a square to closed clubface I should close the face even more because that will cause me to fix the path?
It's strange, it's the same advice that you get from the old ball flight rules but with a new spin on it.

[sean_miller]

So if I have a ott swing with a square to closed clubface I should close the face even more because that will cause me to fix the path?

I didn't watch the videos (at work) but are people using the same terminology?

If a clubface is square of closed to the swing path there is no fade or slice. The shot either goes straight on the same line as the swing path or it curves to the left. People have been taught for generations to worry about the "path" rather than the "target". The new laws (awkward name) sorted out which angle has more effect on the spin and the initial direction, but was throwing out the baby with the bathwater really necessary? Although I've never been a big fan of calling a club face open to the swing patch "closed", I sorted it out in my mind (eventually) and I make it work on the course. Yet I'm still not a fan, because it does three things. 1.) contradicts what we've been taught for generations - almost purposefully, 2.) confuses some people who don't have the time, energy, or interest to discern which is which (i.e. the people who would benefit the most from the message in the first place - the average weekend hackers), 3.) is not necessarily more accurate without the word, "Final" in front of "target". Hey, if people want to argue semantics, why not go whole hog? To me, the point where I want the ball to start is my initial target and since it's the part most easily controlled, that's my focus. The point where I want my ball to be when it stops moving is my "final target". I do my best to control that too, but how close my ball is to that final target when all is said and done, depends on both the clubface and the spin caused the path's relation to the face angle, clubhead speed, quality of contact, the type of ball, the atmospheric conditions (e.g. humidity, air pressure, wind) and probably several other factors. When a clubface is open to the path there is slice spin applied. Everyone seems to agree on that point. My uneducated opinion is that, if the only thing you change is the swing path, without proportionally changing the club face angle relative to that swing path, then you've fixed exactly nothing. The straight slice landing in the long rough becomes a push slice landing OB. You either need to fix the club face angle, or both, but fixing the path alone is, to me, inaccurate.

[Leftygolfer]

Just tell them to set up a bit further left.

A push fade and push slice are Totally different. I hit big push slices when I swing really hard and stupidly and it isn't playable. I'd have to aim 45 degrees right and lose 50 yards. I rather not...

[shortstop20]

My uneducated opinion is that, if the only thing you change is the swing path, without proportionally changing the club face angle relative to that swing path, then you've fixed exactly nothing. The straight slice landing in the long rough becomes a push slice landing OB. You either need to fix the club face angle, or both, but fixing the path alone is, to me, inaccurate.

I disagree because having them swing from the inside will change how their clubface comes into the impact zone.