My Swing (Tom)

[Tom]

michael, thanks for the comment and you're right. getting the handle more forward at impact is a trait of all great and legendary swings. when you inspect the video closely at slow speed ( i use V1 and 240fps video so i can break down all aspects of the swing and know what to work on), the handle is forward. not forward by sergio's standards, but forward enough. what is enough? i've done a lot of work on this... enough is simple and is measurable precisely with video. if you strike the ball with the handle back of ball, you CANNOT control the direction of the golf ball, you have glancing blows and you cannot control distance because you add loft to the club face. this describes most amateurs, and me, when i first started playing. if your hands are equal to the ball you all of a sudden gain better control of the direction, and have better distance control. this describes most good amateurs. if your hands get ahead of the ball, an advanced player shows this trait, you gain even better directional control. but, one of the hardest things to do in golf is change your impact condition by a single inch, two or even three. getting your hands forward is not just a simple matter. it requires an overhaul of the entire swing. mostly a fuller body rotation, better spine angle, impeccable weight shift and lateral bend will get arms/hands in position to be more forward, but i digress. there are three impact types. driver/holder (sergio, tiger), flipper (westwood), roller (mickelson). all have had great successes with their individual swing/impact types. i'm a "pro" level flipper and i'm totally ok with it. i don't flip with chips, pitches or other similar shots (e.g. 67yd pitch to a tight pin), but a flipper none the less. can i change? well, i guess i could, but i have hit a million or more balls and have gotten the flip down. :-)

[rustyredcab]

I love your swing -- especially the 6-iron. It looks free, easy, and effortless. Hard to tell in slo-motion but I'm guessing your tempo is great. I really like a lot about it. I'd like to hit after you on the tee.

I watched your videos before looking at your index and thought, "This guy's swing is pretty darn good. What is he looking for?" I was so pleased to see that my first impressions were right. Your swing is worthy of my admiration.

[sean_miller]

I didn't see the "+" or decimal at first glance. Yeah, that makes much (mucho much) more sense than "22".

[Tom]

Rusty, You are too nice. Thanks. Tom

[senorchipotle]

i think the easiest way to stop flipping, at least in my experience, is to try and keep your right elbow bent throughout the whole downswing until it naturally straightens on your follow through. when i first tried this i was hitting push slices galore, until i bent a little bit more at the waist and got more width between my arms and body. i noticed all of a sudden i had more velocity and better accuracy, and hit fewer fat/thin shots.

[michaeljames92]

Also a greater amount of weight forward at impact helps, its harder to flip when all your weight is forward of the ball.

Originally Posted by senorchipotle

i think the easiest way to stop flipping, at least in my experience, is to try and keep your right elbow bent throughout the whole downswing until it naturally straightens on your follow through. when i first tried this i was hitting push slices galore, until i bent a little bit more at the waist and got more width between my arms and body. i noticed all of a sudden i had more velocity and better accuracy, and hit fewer fat/thin shots.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by senorchipotle

i think the easiest way to stop flipping, at least in my experience, is to try and keep your right elbow bent throughout the whole downswing until it naturally straightens on your follow through. when i first tried this i was hitting push slices galore, until i bent a little bit more at the waist and got more width between my arms and body. i noticed all of a sudden i had more velocity and better accuracy, and hit fewer fat/thin shots.

hi chipotle,

you've hit the nail on the head! the trait that all driver/holder's demonstrate is more (much more) bend in their right arm at impact than the flipper (me) or the roller (mickelson). look at mickelson (below left), especially with his driver. his left arm (trailing arm) is straight at impact. then compare him to the most extreme driver/holder, and you see - BIG TIME. for example, rory sabatini (second from left - and yeah, rory sabatini) is an extreme driver/holder. Next is Rory McIlroy (in red shirt). He's a driver holder but because he has less lateral bend (less than Sabatini) he doesn't get his upper right arm more forward and result is his hands aren't as forward as some players, which goes back to a point I made earlier. How forward do you need to be to be a good consistent player? Then, there's Tiger Woods.

I took these videos (and grabbed these stills), and many more, at this past PGA Championship in Johnscreek, GA at the famed 16th tee. As far as driver holder's go, Rory is extreme. The two other fellows that are extreme were Robert Garrigus and Dustin Johnson.

the point here, for me at least, is that in saying "try and keep your right elbow bent throughout the whole downswing until it naturally straightens on your follow through" is 1,000,000 times easier said than done. if you've hit a million balls, changing even the slightest thing at impact, is verey very verey difficult. to get there, you HAVE to change other dynamics. first off, to even be in a position to have your hands forward, you have to have a lot of external rotation in your lower body so it is pivoting as quickly as it can over your posted lead leg. and to have that, you have to have a great backswing and be in proper position, etc., etc.,

what is the point? chipotle - if you were able to add in more and significant bend in your whole downswing by just thinking about then executing, i would say you are probably a gifted athlete. probably more gifted than me. for me, especially when i was trying to become a driver/holder and decided i would be best off by being like lee westwood and padraig harrington (pro flippers), i wish i could have become a driver/holder that easily.

[poser]

Harrington holds the bend in the right wrist through the ball very well and his rate of closure is alot slower.  Most of the "pro flippers" keep the face open longer because they allow the left wrist to cup under which keeps the face square for a longer time.  You obviously know how to play the game but, saying you have hit millions of balls and its hard to make changes is interesting because there are pros on tour that are constantly trying to improve their swing.  If I was in your situation I would try to slow down my rate of closure to avoid the left misses.

http://www.aroundhawaii.com/lifestyle/health_and_fitness/2010-09-pga-tour-release-styles.html

[Tom]

Originally Posted by poser

...hard to make changes ... pros on tour that are constantly trying to improve their swing.

Poser,

good point and right-o! i could continue to "work on my swing" and certainly will. but,you have to be careful. look at woods with foly - what a train wreck that has become. i don't want to chase that. know what i mean?  could i hold the right wrist angle longer? who couldn't!  could i turn my left hand, wrist and forearm more as a single unit and have a more natural flowing turn over of my right hand/arm? absolutely!  could my right arm be bent more and could i have more lateral bend? absolutely... look at the photos  i posted above of the pros... four gifted athletes with all very different impact conditions. they all get it done.  point is: you nailed it. what you suggest is spot on. thanks!

[senorchipotle]

tom, i think it can be easy if you work slowly. basically, i bring the club up to P4, and once it's set it's just a matter of keeping your width and a consistent tempo and on plane. i just started out as slow as i could with a PW, then a 9, etc. i figured the  driver would be the hardest, but it's actually the easiest to accomplish cause it's teed up. and like i said earlier, if you bend just a bit more at the waist it's easier to get a more vertical shoulder turn, set the club, then initiate with your hips and not your arms.