Scottish golfer Saltman suspended for improper marking...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by BrushCaddy

I'm all for this if he intentionally improved his putting lie.  Doing it "at least 5 times" shows he doesn't respect the rules all.

It's a harsh ruling but I'm curious if the forum thinks it's fair..?

Please search when possible... http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/43322/scottish-golfer-saltman-suspended-for-improper-marking

I'll merge these posts into that thread, but people have already answered your question. :-)

[johnthejoiner]

Golf's reputation for fair play is its calling card and that is why the committee has taken such a dim view of Saltman.

However, there is something uncomfortable about players sitting in judgement of each other, particularly with no established code in place.

[Radford Wooly]

3 months seems a little severe

[Ben]

As minute as it seems, changing from 6 to 8 o'clock can make a big difference. Particularly if there are some spike marks or an imperfection in the green relatively close to your line you would rather avoid. Three months does seem a bit harsh, but, I'd imagine, as some here have suggested, this may have been a re-occurring incident with this player.

[tristanhilton85]

If it's a repeat offense (and it seems that way) 3 months is more than fair.

[tsdnorton]

First to the guy that made the DJ remark. I never said he was DQ'd I said it was assanine that he was taken out of competition of a major because of "grounding" the club in a fairway bunker that was trampled by the crowd. He didn't better his lie or position by grazing the ground before hitting the ball.. But thats a whole different subject and way off the mark.

This was simply a statement of how ridiculous the PGA is getting with the rules... Makes you feel bad for these guys. I'm always one to give the benefit of the doubt I guess though.. I never assume the worst right off the back..

But back on subject,

Is there any record for him every being penalized for this in a tourny before this particular case?

[Bryan SD2]

Three months seems about right.

Anyone who is defending him based on words like "intent" questioning what "advantage" he gained or citing the fact that the ball moved less than an inch does not know, understand, or comprehend not only the rules of golf, but the honor and respect that all professional golfers must show the game, the rules and their fellow competitors by following them to the letter.

If he knowingly moves his ball .000001 to the left when marking his ball and replacing it, he's a cheater, and should be banned.  What is .000001 you say?  Well, it's beyond the tolerance of ZERO.  "Knowingly" being a key word here, don't get your boxers all twisted up.  This guy KNOWS how to mark his ball, he's choosing to mark it in a way that may gain an advantage for him. Spike marks are what, .001 of an inch?  Do YOU want to be competing against an entire FIELD of golfers at a tourney that can all move their ball slightly when preparing to make a putt, but you CANNOT?

DJ got what he deserved as well.  Plain and simple.

[Bryan SD2]

Originally Posted by tsdnorton

First to the guy that made the DJ remark. I never said he was DQ'd I said it was assanine that he was taken out of competition of a major because of "grounding" the club in a fairway bunker that was trampled by the crowd. He didn't better his lie or position by grazing the ground before hitting the ball.. But thats a whole different subject and way off the mark.

This was simply a statement of how ridiculous the PGA is getting with the rules... Makes you feel bad for these guys. I'm always one to give the benefit of the doubt I guess though.. I never assume the worst right off the back..

But back on subject,

Is there any record for him every being penalized for this in a tourny before this particular case?

Back off the subject.... the rules (might as well mention these rules were posted in a dozen places that DJ and his caddy chose NOT to read - locker room, players lounge, etc) do NOT allow for a players intent or measuring the advantage gained to be considered.  Nor should they.  See DiVicenzo, Roberto.

As for your second question, no record of him being penalized previously.  No record of OJ ever turning anyone into a PEZ dispenser before that one time either.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Bryan SD2

Three months seems about right.

Anyone who is defending him based on words like "intent" questioning what "advantage" he gained or citing the fact that the ball moved less than an inch does not know, understand, or comprehend not only the rules of golf, but the honor and respect that all professional golfers must show the game, the rules and their fellow competitors by following them to the letter.

If he knowingly moves his ball .000001 to the left when marking his ball and replacing it, he's a cheater, and should be banned.  What is .000001 you say?  Well, it's beyond the tolerance of ZERO.  "Knowingly" being a key word here, don't get your boxers all twisted up.  This guy KNOWS how to mark his ball, he's choosing to mark it in a way that may gain an advantage for him. Spike marks are what, .001 of an inch?  Do YOU want to be competing against an entire FIELD of golfers at a tourney that can all move their ball slightly when preparing to make a putt, but you CANNOT?

DJ got what he deserved as well.  Plain and simple.

You estimate that a typical spike mark is 1/50 of a millimeter? There should be a lot more suspensions forthcoming!!

[TXjammer]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

Marking a ball at 8 o'clock and replacing it at 6 o'clock can also be enough to move the ball out of the way of an old pitch mark or other imperfection between the ball and the hole.

Or just enough to put the ball in line with a "mark" on the green for alignment.

[Chris G]

If he has repeatedly done this it is not a lapse in concentration or a mistake, he knows what he is doing and to me its cheating.

[Doug Green]

Three months is just fair. It would give him the time to think of his infraction.

[jfrain2004]

Yea,  that old trick of putting the marker infront of the ball and then replacing the ball in front of the marker I see popped up in this thread.  I had my fill of this guy that used to do that and felt like pulling him on it.  I didn't but the next time I played with him I availed of some covert mobile phone footage. I pulled him on it and of course he denied it. It was not somethiing he was doing out of habit because he only ever did it for the 2 footers. Obviously not much to be gained on a 20ft putt. I just played on and let him sign for his card before I played the footage back to the handicap secretary.  I just can't stomach that kind of petty cheating.  The reason as far as I can see that you always mark behind the ball is because you would normally be standing behind it and it is easier to see the marker when you're replacing the ball.

[jetsknicks1]

Originally Posted by The Recreational Golfer

It means he put his marker down not behind the ball but to the left a bit. Then he replaced the ball directly in front of the marker, so it's now left of where it was and closer to the hole.

Is marking the ball either to the left or right an option? I always thought you had to place your mark directly behind the ball.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by jetsknicks1

Is marking the ball either to the left or right an option? I always thought you had to place your mark directly behind the ball.

You are free to mark it from any side, even in front if you so choose (the usual penalty for intentionally touching your line of putt is waived when lifting or replacing your ball).  The rules only state that you "should" place the marker behind.  Indeed, you should, simply to avoid the appearance of wrongdoing.  However, there are times where there might be a reason to prefer to mark from some other side (say you're at the very edge of the green so behind the ball would be on a thick collar).  The only requirement is that you replace your ball exactly where you lifted it from.

[Bryan SD2]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan SD2

Three months seems about right.

Anyone who is defending him based on words like "intent" questioning what "advantage" he gained or citing the fact that the ball moved less than an inch does not know, understand, or comprehend not only the rules of golf, but the honor and respect that all professional golfers must show the game, the rules and their fellow competitors by following them to the letter.

If he knowingly moves his ball .000001 to the left when marking his ball and replacing it, he's a cheater, and should be banned.  What is .000001 you say?  Well, it's beyond the tolerance of ZERO.  "Knowingly" being a key word here, don't get your boxers all twisted up.  This guy KNOWS how to mark his ball, he's choosing to mark it in a way that may gain an advantage for him. Spike marks are what, .001 of an inch?  Do YOU want to be competing against an entire FIELD of golfers at a tourney that can all move their ball slightly when preparing to make a putt, but you CANNOT?

DJ got what he deserved as well.  Plain and simple.

You estimate that a typical spike mark is 1/50 of a millimeter? There should be a lot more suspensions forthcoming!!

Defintley an inadvertent 0 in there!  Regardless, the tolerance is zero.  Mark your ball correctly... no NEARER the hole (tolerance zero) on drops....  keeping point X between you and the hole (drops)...  completely accurate scorecards......  lots of tolerances of zero.