Stack and Tilt & MORAD

[Easy]

I'm not looking for an argument on why one is better than the other.

But if anyone can point out the differences between the two swings or give any insight into the Morad swing that would be awesome.

From what I've seen both swing methods are very similar.

Here's a look at a golfer with the Morad method.

[iacas]

An answer is on the way. :-) I've asked a guy who teaches S&T; (with me) and whose username is/was "moradman" to answer you.

[james_hirshfield]

Hi Guys.

In its simplest form, S&T; is a pattern.

Morad is a compilation of patterns. of which this video would just be one.

There are subtle differences yet differences none the less. Though a lot of similarities too.

[The_Pharaoh]

Could you be a bit more cryptic?!

[Harmonious]

Makes perfect sense to me.  It's a pattern that is similar yet is different.

And people say that Sean Foley can be hard to understand.

[Bo the Golfer]

So, in english, Morad speaks to different ways to swing the club while S&T; is one of those ways that fall under Morad? This close to what you are saying?

[MiniBlueDragon]

  Harmonious said:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Makes perfect sense to me.  It's a pattern that is similar yet is different.

And people say that Sean Foley can be hard to understand.

Being cryptic is a tad different to using nonsense phrases and buzzwords to make yourself seem more clever than you actually are. ;)

" As we move into the top of the swing what we're looking at is continuing from the takeaway is making sure and ensuring that the body and arms are doing the correct thing to work in connection with each other in collaboration with each other. " - Sean Foley

[Stretch]

"MORAD is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" -- Winston Churchill.

Don't shit on James, the Mac folks are intentionally (some would say almost fanatically) obscure about the details of the method. But, in my understanding, S&T; says you can use one swing for every club in your bag while MORAD has a slightly different swing for driver, long irons, short irons and then even incremental variations according to desired trajectory/shape with each of those those clubs. MORAD adherents will tell you that Bennett and Plummer basically just took one of their short iron patterns and marketed it as a universal nostrum.

Anyway, if you want a comparative analysis that's been widely vilified by people in both camps, here's one.

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/02/16/s-t-vs-morad/

[iacas]

  Stretch said:

Originally Posted by Stretch

Anyway, if you want a comparative analysis that's been widely vilified by people in both camps, here's one.

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/02/16/s-t-vs-morad/

Oh god, not that...

[james_hirshfield]

Yes, bo the golfer that would be close.

Morad is an umbrella. under that umbrella are all different patterns of how to hit different shots.

S&T; is one pattern. Not necessarily a Morad pattern, but is A pattern. S&T; can also make adjustments to hit a variety of shots but that would be for a more advanced golfer.

The swing shown above would be ONE pattern of the Morad system. There are MANY different patterns (each used to hit variety of shapes and trajectories)

[saevel25]

Looks to me that he's splitting hairs there.. i see you don't find his critism wanted.. ;b

[The_Pharaoh]

No one is shitting on anybody. Seeing what James wrote made me laugh after the intro from Erik. I had my notebook ready and everything...

  Stretch said:

Originally Posted by Stretch

"MORAD is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma" -- Winston Churchill.

Don't shit on James, the Mac folks are intentionally (some would say almost fanatically) obscure about the details of the method. But, in my understanding, S&T; says you can use one swing for every club in your bag while MORAD has a slightly different swing for driver, long irons, short irons and then even incremental variations according to desired trajectory/shape with each of those those clubs. MORAD adherents will tell you that Bennett and Plummer basically just took one of their short iron patterns and marketed it as a universal nostrum.

Anyway, if you want a comparative analysis that's been widely vilified by people in both camps, here's one.

http://www.pdf-archive.com/2011/02/16/s-t-vs-morad/

[iacas]

  saevel25 said:

Originally Posted by saevel25

Looks to me that he's splitting hairs there.. i see you don't find his critism wanted.. ;b

He horribly misrepresents BOTH in that PDF, if that's what you're talking about. It's a joke. A travesty.

[james_hirshfield]

honestly, even with a notebook handy, there are SOO many variables it would take forever.

I'll put it as this

Morad=

1) Straight

2) Draw

3) Fade.

mutiplied by 9 different trajectories

9) high high

8) high medium

7) high low

6) medium high

5) medium medium

4) medium low

3) low high

2) low mid

1) low low.

so there are all these variables and to accomplish each of them, need slight adjustments in setup, tilts, rates, releases.

S&T;, and i HATE to do this, would be medium-high, slight push draw.

So Morad has all these different options, S&T; would favor one. That does not mean that S&T; IS one of the Morad patterns as there are differences again. it is simply A pattern, and Morad is MANY patterns.

To state all the differences would need me to ask, which am i comparing it too, and again, soo many variables.

S&T; also has the ability to make adjustments to hit different shots, but we would teach it by adjusting the face/path relationship, rather than swing mechanics (assuming someone swung with "perfect" swing mechanics)

Hope this helps.

[plugged]

Tthis is the first I have hear of the Morad system.  Do any of the pros use it?

[plugged]

I just looked at the video.  Looks like a traditional golf swing to me.

[Clambake]

  james_hirshfield said:

Originally Posted by james_hirshfield

honestly, even with a notebook handy, there are SOO many variables it would take forever.

I'll put it as this

Morad=

1) Straight

2) Draw

3) Fade.

mutiplied by 9 different trajectories

9) high high

8) high medium

7) high low

6) medium high

5) medium medium

4) medium low

3) low high

2) low mid

1) low low.

so there are all these variables and to accomplish each of them, need slight adjustments in setup, tilts, rates, releases.

S&T;, and i HATE to do this, would be medium-high, slight push draw.

So Morad has all these different options, S&T; would favor one. That does not mean that S&T; IS one of the Morad patterns as there are differences again. it is simply A pattern, and Morad is MANY patterns.

To state all the differences would need me to ask, which am i comparing it too, and again, soo many variables.

S&T; also has the ability to make adjustments to hit different shots, but we would teach it by adjusting the face/path relationship, rather than swing mechanics (assuming someone swung with "perfect" swing mechanics)

Hope this helps.

So what you've just said is that in MORAD you'd need to learn 3x9=27 different swing mechanics to do the basic shot patterns or I could learn one set of swing mechanics in S&T; and then just adjust face and path.      Hmmmm, guess which one sounds more practical and learnable????

[iacas]

  plugged said:

Originally Posted by plugged

Tthis is the first I have hear of the Morad system.  Do any of the pros use it?

It's kind of a weird question, because it's like the people who ask "Are there any Golfing Machine guys on the PGA Tour?" It's a similar question, but not quite same. MORAD has - and nobody but Mac O'Grady would really know for sure, perhaps - let's say 27 different swing patterns. A guy who was fairly familiar with MORAD might use a few of them to play tournament golf... if he needed a low wedge he might use a certain pattern, then a high draw with his driver he might use another... etc.

Some guys on the PGA Tour might be really close to one of those 27 (again, a made up number) patterns... some might mix and match pieces, whatever... Mac O'Grady is a bit of an odd duck. Likely a brilliant guy, in some ways, but not necessarily quite right in the head. ;-) (In a way that I personally find fascinating.)

  plugged said:

Originally Posted by plugged

I just looked at the video.  Looks like a traditional golf swing to me.

As with S&T;, none of the MORAD patterns would look like anything but a fairly traditional golf swing.

P.S. I made up 27. Didn't occur to me until after the fact that 3 x 9 = 27.