The Dan Plan - 10,000 Hours to Become a Pro Golfer (Dan McLaughlin)

[natureboy]

I like his lower body action more there than in his regular swing.

Ouch.

He was way to close to the ball for that flat a swing plane.

[Nosevi]

Been reading the to and fro about whether a lack of strength is the reason Dan can't get better than a certain level with interest or whether it could be used as an 'excuse' for a lack of progress. Bottom line is no it isn't and no it can't. @Lihu , a lack or muscular strength could well have been used as a reason for Dan's lack of distance on day one. At this point, a little over 5 years down the line and it could only ever be used (if it is still the case) as an argument for a lack of dedication. 5 years in the gym working on golf specific power and strength and you are going to have the minimum strength required. Lack of physical ability may be a 'barrier' but lack of basic strength, given years of strength training, isn't going to be one.

A guy I regularly practice with (couple of times most weeks) is not built dissimilarly to Dan, maybe a tad taller but similar build. He carries the ball about 290 yards in still air, launch monitor measured. I've seen him carry it 320 yards but generally he's a hair under 300. He hits his 9 iron just under 160. He hits his long irons fantastically and they just go for miles. I'm joining him at a tour event he's playing in next week.

Trust me @Lihu all this talk of build being a barrier to progression is an utter 'red herring' - it is simply not the case. My physique is a barrier to my progress - I'm too fat......... so I'm losing weight. If Dan is still not strong enough 5 years down the line then he needs to look seriously at his physical conditioning programme.

[Lihu]

Been reading the to and fro about whether a lack of strength is the reason Dan can't get better than a certain level with interest or whether it could be used as an 'excuse' for a lack of progress. Bottom line is no it isn't and no it can't. @Lihu, a lack or muscular strength could well have been used as a reason for Dan's lack of distance on day one. At this point, a little over 5 years down the line and it could only ever be used (if it is still the case) as an argument for a lack of dedication. 5 years in the gym working on golf specific power and strength and you are going to have the minimum strength required. Lack of physical ability may be a 'barrier' but lack of basic strength, given years of strength training, isn't going to be one.

A guy I regularly practice with (couple of times most weeks) is not built dissimilarly to Dan, maybe a tad taller but similar build. He carries the ball about 290 yards in still air, launch monitor measured. I've seen him carry it 320 yards but generally he's a hair under 300. He hits his 9 iron just under 160. He hits his long irons fantastically and they just go for miles. I'm joining him at a tour event he's playing in next week.

Trust me @Lihu all this talk of build being a barrier to progression is an utter 'red herring' - it is simply not the case. My physique is a barrier to my progress - I'm too fat......... so I'm losing weight. If Dan is still not strong enough 5 years down the line then he needs to look seriously at his physical conditioning programme.

What I don't get is why this is anything different than what I've already been stating? Why are you directing this towards me, when I was already trying to state the exact same thing?

In any case, I've also been stating that he already did as much as he can the way he decided to do it and gotten a lot better than most people.

[Nosevi]

I was directing it towards you because your comments seemed to be saying his natural build was the problem. It's not. The fact he hasn't changed his physical attributes may be an issue but his stature and natural size has nothing to do with it. If he wasn't strong enough on day 1 you could point to his physique as being partly to 'blame'. 5 years down the line if his physique is still an issue that's a dedication problem. Go to the gym for 5 days a week for 5 years and you'll get strong enough, I don't care who you are to start with. I'm not having a go I'm just saying I have first hand experience of regularly playing with a guy naturally built fairly similarly to Dan (albeit he works out every day) who played for his country at all levels and now plays on tour. When you say his natural build is a barrier to being a tour pro, respectfully, you're mistaken.

[Lihu]

I was directing it towards you because your comments seemed to be saying his natural build was the problem. It's not. The fact he hasn't changed his physical attributes may be an issue but his stature and natural size has nothing to do with it. If he wasn't strong enough on day 1 you could point to his physique as being partly to 'blame'. 5 years down the line if his physique is still an issue that's a dedication problem. Go to the gym for 5 days a week for 5 years and you'll get strong enough, I don't care who you are to start with. I'm not having a go I'm just saying I have first hand experience of regularly playing with a guy naturally built fairly similarly to Dan (albeit he works out every day) who played for his country at all levels and now plays on tour. When you say his natural build is a barrier to being a tour pro, respectfully, you're mistaken.

Yes, but I already noted that when my son was shorter and smaller than him that my son was still stronger than Dan, but you were too quick to tell me that I'm wrong about something rather than understand what I was attempting to state. Sorry my communications skills are not up to your required level. . .

[newtogolf]

Yes, but I already noted that when my son was shorter and smaller than him that my son was still stronger than Dan, but you were too quick to tell me that I'm wrong about something rather than understand what I was attempting to state.

Sorry my communications skills are not up to your required level. . .

What was your basis in determining that your son is stronger than Dan?

[Lihu]

[QUOTE name="Lihu" url="/t/45853/the-dan-plan-10-000-hours-to-become-a-pro-golfer-dan-mclaughlin/3060_30#post_1143495"] Yes, but I already noted that when my son was shorter and smaller than him that my son was still stronger than Dan, but you were too quick to tell me that I'm wrong about something rather than understand what I was attempting to state. Sorry my communications skills are not up to your required level. . .[/QUOTE] What was your basis in determining that your son is stronger than Dan?

My son was driving farther and carried his 7i 155 a couple years ago. Of course, it was with a little help from a lesson with Dana and Mike. He's driving 270-280 now, and is probably about Dan's reported height possibly a little taller and weighs 125-130 dripping wet. If Dan were 15 years old, I would say he's a decent size and has a chance to play lower level college golf. He's 40. . .

[newtogolf]

My son was driving farther and carried his 7i 155 a couple years ago. Of course, it was with a little help from a lesson with Dana and Mike.

He's driving 270-280 now, and is probably about Dan's reported height possibly a little taller and weighs 125-130 dripping wet.

If Dan were 15 years old, I would say he's a decent size and has a chance to play lower level college golf. He's 40. . .

Distance is not solely a measure of strength.  I know a lot of big guys that can't hit the ball long because they lack technique, not strength.  Would you say Charles Barkley is weaker than your son because he can't drive the ball as far?

I'm hitting the ball longer than I ever have not because I'm stronger (I'm likely weaker) but because I'm engaging my lower body (core) more and making better contact with the ball.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lihu

My son was driving farther and carried his 7i 155 a couple years ago. Of course, it was with a little help from a lesson with Dana and Mike.

He's driving 270-280 now, and is probably about Dan's reported height possibly a little taller and weighs 125-130 dripping wet.

If Dan were 15 years old, I would say he's a decent size and has a chance to play lower level college golf. He's 40. . .

Distance is not solely a measure of strength.  I know a lot of big guys that can't hit the ball long because they lack technique, not strength.  Would you say Charles Barkley is weaker than your son because he can't drive the ball as far?

I'm hitting the ball longer than I ever have not because I'm stronger (I'm likely weaker) but because I'm engaging my lower body (core) more and making better contact with the ball.

Truthfully, I only meant stronger at golf. When I say wimpy or strong in the context of a golf swing.

BTW, Charles has a terrible swing, but I think he hits pretty far.

[Nosevi]

Don't take it so personally @Lihu. You said you thought Dan's size was in some way a road block (can't remember the exact phrase used) to getting good. I'm just saying possibly his physical conditioning is an issue and if it is, 5 years into the project, it really shouldn't be. We're just disagreeing slightly on a point. It's a forum and people often disagree. I'm not being rude about it, just saying I disagree that size or 'natural' strength is in any way a determining factor in where Dan is or why he can't go further. Chill - it's just a discussion about golf :)

[Lihu]

Don't take it so personally @Lihu. You said you thought Dan's size was in some way a road block (can't remember the exact phrase used) to getting good. I'm just saying possibly his physical conditioning is an issue and if it is, 5 years into the project, it really shouldn't be. We're just disagreeing slightly on a point. It's a forum and people often disagree. I'm not being rude about it, just saying I disagree that size or 'natural' strength is in any way a determining factor in where Dan is or why he can't go further. Chill - it's just a discussion about golf :)

Okay, you're right, this is a discussion where there's no right and wrong opinion. I respectfully disagree with your argument. Not everyone can become a tour pro by simply working out. It takes talent. I agree that Dan had 5 years to workout and gain some strength, and didn't do so it's really his own fault he's not strong enough to improve. Can he work out now to improve? I think he's got a challenge there too, and I'm not sure he believes his current level of fitness is a limiting factor.

[Nosevi]

I also think it's about talent, not sure we disagree on the basic point here - Dan appears to need more 'umph' in his swing and doesn't appear to have gained much muscle over the 5 years of the project. Lots of "appears" in there, neither of us can be sure. True, everyone can't become a tour pro simply by working out but if you lack basic strength, not working out will make it nigh on impossible to get there. Sorry if I came over too direct, thought it was just a friendly discussion about physical size vs conditioning. :)

[Lihu]

I also think it's about talent, not sure we disagree on the basic point here - Dan appears to need more 'umph' in his swing and doesn't appear to have gained much muscle over the 5 years of the project. Lots of "appears" in there, neither of us can be sure. True, everyone can't become a tour pro simply by working out but if you lack basic strength, not working out will make it nigh on impossible to get there. Sorry if I came over too direct, thought it was just a friendly discussion about physical size vs conditioning. :)

If I had simply stated "lack of oomph" I probably could have avoided all kinds of arguments. . .:-)

[RandallT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

I like his lower body action more there than in his regular swing.

Ouch.

He was way to close to the ball for that flat a swing plane.

Yah, I thought he was so close he had no choice but to get his hands ahead and open up the club face to spray it right.

And it seems like the alignment was off too. Was he trying to hit into the left woods? I've found with my toilet shots, it's important to get the john lined up toward the fairway.

[nevets88]

Quote:

Originally Posted by natureboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

I like his lower body action more there than in his regular swing.

Ouch.

He was way to close to the ball for that flat a swing plane.

Yah, I thought he was so close he had no choice but to get his hands ahead and open up the club face to spray it right.

And it seems like the alignment was off too. Was he trying to hit into the left woods? I've found with my toilet shots, it's important to get the john lined up toward the fairway.

Well, after a... crap shot , good as anytime for a #2. Anyone who recalls Homer Simpson and the combo recliner/toilet knows what I'm talking about.

[tdiii]

Dan could pick up a massive strength gain with a 3 to 4 month linear progression of the basic barbell lifts (back squat, dead lift, press, bench press, pullups/chinups, and power cleans).  He's received this advice on more than one occasion.  This regime would also provide him some mass to protect against injuries -- which he now seems to be suffering.  But, he either doesn't believe the advice or doesn't want to do a little bit of hard work.  I the context of 5 years, this short period is nothing.

[rolopolo]

so much criticism towards Dan and his lack of "dedication" and "hard work". what the man has accomplished is simply unbelievable and i think his experiment is already a big success.

[Lihu]

so much criticism towards Dan and his lack of "dedication" and "hard work". what the man has accomplished is simply unbelievable and i think his experiment is already a big success.

It was 1 and a half years ago when he got down to a 3. He should have stopped right there, and called it a day.