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Beware of the sandbaggers

franky21

By franky21
in Golf Talk

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franky21 Well Established Member

franky21

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I start my league on monday and i am hoping i don't get stuck with a sandbagger. He is saying he is a 10 handicapp and plays a 4. Has anyone on here ever experienced playing with a sandbagger.


meenman Great Member

meenman

Posted
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I've played with more vanity-cappers than sandbaggers.

Our known sandbaggers stopped winning this year once it was known that there was a handicap chairman in place.

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Chris, although my friends call me Mr.L

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Shindig Incredible Member

Shindig

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Originally Posted by franky21

I start my league on monday and i am hoping i don't get stuck with a sandbagger. He is saying he is a 10 handicapp and plays a 4. Has anyone on here ever experienced playing with a sandbagger.



Hopefully, your handicap chairman has put measures in place to deal with this -- I know the ones in my club have!

Check out http://popeofslope.com/sandbagging/index.html for suggestions.

-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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clubchamp Great Member

clubchamp

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Vanity handicappers seem to be much more prevalent than sandbaggers anymore. The other thing is it's odd for someone who is a 4 to claim they are a 10 most sandbaggers are 15 claiming to be 25s. I wouldn't worry about it golf is a crazy game and anything can happen... good luck

Driver: i15, 3 wood: G10, Hybrid: Nickent 4dx, Irons: Ping s57, Wedges: Mizuno MPT 52, 56, 60, Putter: XG #9 

JerseyThursday Dedicated Member

JerseyThursday

Posted
Posted


Originally Posted by franky21

I start my league on monday and i am hoping i don't get stuck with a sandbagger. He is saying he is a 10 handicapp and plays a 4. Has anyone on here ever experienced playing with a sandbagger.



I’m trying to understand. If it’s a league, then many rounds are played. If this guy is trying to win his match every week how couldn’t his scores eventually dictate his true handicap?

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kevin.chan Dedicated Member

kevin.chan

Posted
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I played in a 9 hole league ( sub for my friend ) and i declared my handicap at 5 ( i was then ) . But i was 2 under through 8 but double bogey  on the 9th. I played Even for that day .

My opponent complained that i was sand bagging !

However , for the next few rounds  i play at the same league , i cant repeat the same score.

So am i sand bagging ?

What I Play:
913D3 9.5°Diamana Kai'li 70 Stiff  "C3" | 910F 15°, Diamana Kai'li 80 Stiff "D2" | 910H 19°,  Diamana Kai'li for Titleist 85 Hybrid Stiff | Titleist 714 AP2 4 to P Aerotech Steelfiber i110 S | SM4 Vokey 50.12, 54.14 & SM5 60.11K| 34" Edel Umpqua + 40g Counter Weight
 

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phillyk Super Member

phillyk

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Posted


Originally Posted by kevin.chan

I played in a 9 hole league ( sub for my friend ) and i declared my handicap at 5 ( i was then ) . But i was 2 under through 8 but double bogey  on the 9th. I played Even for that day .

My opponent complained that i was sand bagging !

However , for the next few rounds  i play at the same league , i cant repeat the same score.

So am i sand bagging ?


Not at all.  Everyone has rounds or series of holes in which everything clicks, that doesn't make them a sandbagger.  Some people just want to win and make a bit of money by any means necessary even if it destroys the game of golf, so they'll pretend to be worse all the time.  If you shoot well through a period of holes, good job!

Philip Kohnken, PGA
Director of Instruction, Lake Padden GC, Bellingham, WA

Srixon/Cleveland Club Fitter; PGA Modern Coach; Certified in Dr Kwon’s Golf Biomechanics Levels 1 & 2; Certified in SAM Putting; Certified in TPI
 
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ghalfaire Great Member

ghalfaire

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Originally Posted by clubchamp

Vanity handicappers seem to be much more prevalent than sandbaggers anymore. The other thing is it's odd for someone who is a 4 to claim they are a 10 most sandbaggers are 15 claiming to be 25s. I wouldn't worry about it golf is a crazy game and anything can happen... good luck



I agree with this.  Sometimes you can see a player just gets "hot" for a short period.  But I have seen some very improbable scores in tournaments.  Anyone one might get "hot" for a short period but when someone fires 3 for 4 consecutive rounds 4-6 strokes under their handicap, you have to wonder.  But in any sanctioned play this will result in a "adjusted handicap" being assigned to the player.  You can find the calculation of the adjusted handicap on the USGA web site.  So likely this sandbagger will only be able to do this for one tournament.  But of course if you're the guy that  gets beat this way it isn't much help.

Butch


franky21 Well Established Member

franky21

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Originally Posted by clubchamp

Vanity handicappers seem to be much more prevalent than sandbaggers anymore. The other thing is it's odd for someone who is a 4 to claim they are a 10 most sandbaggers are 15 claiming to be 25s. I wouldn't worry about it golf is a crazy game and anything can happen... good luck


What is a vanity handicapper? I guess i have to agree with the others once you turn in your scorecard your true handicapp will be discovered. You still could cheat on the first week of the league but i guess i should worry more about how i play then what anyone else is doing.


clubchamp Great Member

clubchamp

Posted
Posted


Originally Posted by franky21

What is a vanity handicapper? I guess i have to agree with the others once you turn in your scorecard your true handicapp will be discovered. You still could cheat on the first week of the league but i guess i should worry more about how i play then what anyone else is doing.


A vanity handicapper is the exact opposite of a sandbagger. Basically it's someone who is probably a 10 to a 15 cap but claims to be a 3 to 5 cap. I just played in a tourney last sunday with a guy who was listed as a 6 but shot 102 and you could see the guy had no chance of being a 6.

Driver: i15, 3 wood: G10, Hybrid: Nickent 4dx, Irons: Ping s57, Wedges: Mizuno MPT 52, 56, 60, Putter: XG #9 

NEOHMark Well Established Member

NEOHMark

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Posted


Originally Posted by JerseyThursday

I’m trying to understand. If it’s a league, then many rounds are played. If this guy is trying to win his match every week how couldn’t his scores eventually dictate his true handicap?

Bingo.  If the league has a legitimate hcp process in place, there is no way any player can sandbag more than a couple of weeks.

That said, there can be some variance between what a player claims as his overall hcp and what the league calculates.  I'm currently playing to about 12 overall (entering all my practice rounds) while my league handicap is 14.  A couple/three strokes difference between your overall claimed hcp and your league hcp is completely understandable, IMHO.  Anything over 5 is probably either a vanity hcp or an attempt at sandbagging IMHO.

In my bag: adams.gif Speedline Fast 10 10.5, Speedline 3W, Ping Zing2 5-SW  vokey.gif 60 deg odyssey.gif 2-ball    330-RXS


franky21 Well Established Member

franky21

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Originally Posted by NEOHMark

Bingo.  If the league has a legitimate hcp process in place, there is no way any player can sandbag more than a couple of weeks.

That said, there can be some variance between what a player claims as his overall hcp and what the league calculates.  I'm currently playing to about 12 overall (entering all my practice rounds) while my league handicap is 14.  A couple/three strokes difference between your overall claimed hcp and your league hcp is completely understandable, IMHO.  Anything over 5 is probably either a vanity hcp or an attempt at sandbagging IMHO.

Ok that is good to know because i have never been in a league, this is a first for me. The guy that is running it has been doing it for a very long time so i am sure he has a good system in place. To be honest i don't know how someone could really say there a single digit handicapp and play a 25. I have to say it must be pretty humiliating for that guy.


newtogolf Incredible Member

newtogolf

Posted
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Originally Posted by franky21

Ok that is good to know because i have never been in a league, this is a first for me. The guy that is running it has been doing it for a very long time so i am sure he has a good system in place. To be honest i don't know how someone could really say there a single digit handicapp and play a 25. I have to say it must be pretty humiliating for that guy.

It wouldn't be that drastic, more like a 15 handicapper saying he's under 10, or a 20+ saying he's a 15.

Joe Paradiso

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P-Town Golfer Member

P-Town Golfer

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I don't even know my true handicap and I just learned some new golf lingo from this thread haha. But I normally hover around low 80's ...break 80 on good days...but lets say I normally shoot an 82 and par for the course is 72...does that make me a 10 handicap (basically)

I know you have to play so many rounds and take course slope and rating into account to get your handicap but I'm just trying to guesstimate


NEOHMark Well Established Member

NEOHMark

Posted
Posted


Originally Posted by P-Town Golfer

I don't even know my true handicap and I just learned some new golf lingo from this thread haha. But I normally hover around low 80's ...break 80 on good days...but lets say I normally shoot an 82 and par for the course is 72...does that make me a 10 handicap (basically)

I know you have to play so many rounds and take course slope and rating into account to get your handicap but I'm just trying to guesstimate

Your handicap isn't really indicative of your average round, but your best rounds.  If you are breaking 80 on your good days, then those are the scores that would count toward your hcp.  USGA hcp is the average of your best ten scores out of your last twenty.  The course and slope ratings are a way of normalizing hcps of different players from different courses for an equitable/somewhat accurate comparison.

In my bag: adams.gif Speedline Fast 10 10.5, Speedline 3W, Ping Zing2 5-SW  vokey.gif 60 deg odyssey.gif 2-ball    330-RXS


P-Town Golfer Member

P-Town Golfer

Posted
Posted


Originally Posted by NEOHMark

Your handicap isn't really indicative of your average round, but your best rounds.  If you are breaking 80 on your good days, then those are the scores that would count toward your hcp.  USGA hcp is the average of your best ten scores out of your last twenty.  The course and slope ratings are a way of normalizing hcps of different players from different courses for an equitable/somewhat accurate comparison.



I See. Thanks.


franky21 Well Established Member

franky21

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Originally Posted by newtogolf

It wouldn't be that drastic, more like a 15 handicapper saying he's under 10, or a 20+ saying he's a 15.

Well that makes a little more sense to me.


ghalfaire Great Member

ghalfaire

Posted
Posted


Originally Posted by NEOHMark

Bingo.  If the league has a legitimate hcp process in place, there is no way any player can sandbag more than a couple of weeks.

That said, there can be some variance between what a player claims as his overall hcp and what the league calculates.  I'm currently playing to about 12 overall (entering all my practice rounds) while my league handicap is 14.  A couple/three strokes difference between your overall claimed hcp and your league hcp is completely understandable, IMHO.  Anything over 5 is probably either a vanity hcp or an attempt at sandbagging IMHO.

yup, in league play it is difficult to be a Sandbagger as the members know each other and their games.

Butch


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