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Gerald

Rotary Swing Golf

126 posts in this topic

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Not sure what I think of this to be fair. Solely based on the video you posted above he says:

Shoulder blade moves toward the spine by 2 inches and slightly down.

This moves the turns the shoulders 45 degrees.

Shoulder moves 6-8 inches.

This moves the hands about 2.5 ft.

This moves the club head about 2.5 yards.

He basically wants your takeaway to be driven from the 2 inch turn and suggests that it will result in the same takeaway each time.

What happens if you only turn 1.5 inches or 75% of the initial turn? What if you turn 2.5 inches? What if your "slightly down" is slightly different each time? Each of those will give a different result than the perfect 2 inches.

To look at it from another perspective when you hit a ball 1 degree to the right in a straight push shot you'll land up 1.75ft to the right of the target if the ball goes 100ft or so. If I told you to aim 2ft right of the pin you'd do so with ease. If I told you to aim 1 degree right you'd have a hard time of it.

I see no merit in the 2 inch idea at all; I much prefer the idea of the hands moving over a certain point such as the right toes in the takeaway to signify that it's correct rather than an extremes of clubhead or spine rotation, both of which are harder to judge.

(I didn't look at anything more on the swing)

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Okay I understand what you mean, but when people rotate they mostly also sway a lot and the method shows how to rotate without the sway. Aiming 1 degree forget it ......
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True but then so does "left shoulder down" or "left should down, right shoulder up" or "keep your head centered" or "flex your front knee slightly and straighten your back knee slightly"

I guess it's whatever description works for the person employing it. For me though taking something back to such a basic motion like the guy in the video is too hardcore.

Even standing here now and thinking "2 inches back and down" turns my own shoulders way past 45 degrees and it turns them on a flatter plane than my body's natural plane ; I'd have difficulty returning to the ball from there (maybe my 'slightly down' is too much).

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His swing has a lot more in common with S&T; than he ever let on. I can't really be too objective, because I've seen a lot of what I'd consider false or really silly statements from Chuck through the years. This image was a part of all of that... http://iacas.org/f/chuck_quinton_spine_angle.jpg .

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Yep being working on S&T; myself I see a lot of similarities, only in other words ........ I kind of like the way he is talking about the backswing, but in all it is about the same kind of backswing, same kind of weight transfer, same kind of maintaining the flying wedge, same kind of follow through.

I have seen many other methods as well, and about all have some or even a lot of S&T; in them ........ but we can also say S&T; has a lot of what many really good players had in them for many years, so in all ...... it is not so strange that other "guru's" develop "new" swings and use the same basics.

I am not saying one is better than the other, but the basics of a good swing come close together, whether it is technical or natural and what about all say it is not or less to do, with grip this or grip that....... etc.

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I worked with Chuck for a long time (about 5 years) and am even quoted on the back of his book "The Rotary Swing".  When I first started with him he kept every thing extremely simple and had me playing the best golf of my life.  Over time, he became more and more technical searching for the "biomechanically perfect" swing and that's when you started getting all these minute moves that required tens of thousands of reps to master.  Long story short, trying to follow him down this path put me at odds with his original philosophy and he started contradicting himself over and over and over.  Couple that with his very nasty and defensiveness of what he was doing and he slowly robbed the joy of playing golf from me.  I am still recovering.

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I have always had a tendency to sway in the backswing.  I have found the 2-inch-shoulder-blade-into-the-spine move to help tremendously in rotating without swaying.  I also like the concept of bolting your left glute to the ground to start the transition.

But as with every other golf (or life) phillosophy, there are no absolute truths.  You just have to find bits and pieces that work for you.

I have also found some good pointers from Shawn Clement to help with my tempo, but would not consider his gravity methods and his perpetual motion drills to be the only schooling method.

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Originally Posted by gwlee7

I worked with Chuck for a long time (about 5 years) and am even quoted on the back of his book "The Rotary Swing".  When I first started with him he kept every thing extremely simple and had me playing the best golf of my life.  Over time, he became more and more technical searching for the "biomechanically perfect" swing and that's when you started getting all these minute moves that required tens of thousands of reps to master.  Long story short, trying to follow him down this path put me at odds with his original philosophy and he started contradicting himself over and over and over.  Couple that with his very nasty and defensiveness of what he was doing and he slowly robbed the joy of playing golf from me.  I am still recovering.

He is offering actually two options, one for the guy that just wants to play nice golf without practicing a LOT on details like you decribed and severe technical one for the guy or girl wanting to become better than a pro, wanting to invest a lot of practice time and effort.

I personally feel that KISS really aplies to golf, whenever you go into the depths, whether it is called S&T;, Rotary Swing, Automatic Golf, One Plane Swing, Perfect Connection Golf and start thinking on 20 combined movements to hit the ball superperfect ...... you will be lost forever.

I like the basic things and thoughts, like his take-a-way ...... I don't need the "crap" bio-this-bio-that, just understanding why to rotate without sway, transfer weight to front, maintaining the flying wedge, shaft leaning forward, etc. from various methods ...... basics that you can make your own quite simple.

Don't make the game complicated, don't buy a set of iron you have to hit like a pro to have nice resuts, we all need forgiviness in the swing and in the tools.


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I wasted my time watching that video.  Just more nonsense from would-be instructors.

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Originally Posted by JackLee

I wasted my time watching that video.  Just more nonsense from would-be instructors.


Maybe nonsense to you, and maybe a waste of time for you ...... I know for some/most it is a way better instruction than all other crap together.

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Originally Posted by Gerald

Maybe nonsense to you, and maybe a waste of time for you ...... I know for some/most it is a way better instruction than all other crap together.


I don't pay much attention to JackLee. Most of his posts either seem to bash other instruction methods or pimp out some Master Key or something...

But let's stick to the topic, eh? I don't have much to say about CQRS, so I'm done now. ;-)

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Gerald,

I am well aware of the "two swings".  Chuck was a decent enough guy.  I have spent a lot of time with him in person.  He also has learned how to "market" himself quite well and just when lots of people seemed to be doing really well, he switched gears with the "Rotary Swing Tour" swing and started telling everyone who had been with him from pretty much the beginning of his site that the "old way" was not the way to go but that the new swing and the lessons (online or in person) were the only way that you would be able to get it.  All of the "real" information is only available to members that pay $X a month.  On top of that, any one of us can become a "Certified Rotary Swing Instructor" if we pay the fee to take his "class".  One of his  newest "instructors" went with me down to FL to see Chuck one time and there is no way you could pay me to take a lesson from that guy.  From where things used to be with him, the kool aid is pretty bitter now.

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Originally Posted by Gerald

I personally feel that KISS really aplies to golf, whenever you go into the depths, whether it is called S&T;, Rotary Swing, Automatic Golf, One Plane Swing, Perfect Connection Golf and start thinking on 20 combined movements to hit the ball superperfect ...... you will be lost forever.


I do agree that keeping it simple is an ideal thing to do, however there's a certain amount of complication that *must* happen if you want to be hitting a ball anywhere near straight. If you told someone who'd never played golf, "just swing the club" they would likely have no idea where to start to form anywhere near a repeatable swing. I agree that things like the "8 step" swing or swings where you have a billion and one points to hit to make sure you're swinging correctly are not great but even with those if you take away the bulk of the information you can be left with some real gems. I think those gems are what swings like S&T; are based on; having a nice simple swing that you can keep as basic as you want or add complexity should you choose to try and become better.

At it's core, S&T; is KISS:

  1. Weight forward.
  2. Shoulder down + hands in + straighten leg.
  3. Straight arms.
  4. Tuck hips.

That should give anyone a reasonable golf swing which, even if it's not "worked on" would get better and better just through playing golf.

There's nothing overwhelming about it, nothing magical and certainly not a bazillion and one things to remember.

If though a golfer chooses to really learn the biomechanical elements to the swing they have that possibility.

Originally Posted by Gerald

I like the basic things and thoughts, like his take-a-way ...... I don't need the "crap" bio-this-bio-that, just understanding why to rotate without sway, transfer weight to front, maintaining the flying wedge, shaft leaning forward, etc. from various methods ...... basics that you can make your own quite simple.

The problem here is your first sentence. *you* like basic things and thoughts (as do I!) but many people don't; they like to get down to the nitty gritty and work on each and every separate part of the swing. They want stats and graphs and descriptions and videos and books and lessons and 3D representations and training aids to force their body into the perfect position. Some things work for some people but not others. For example my lower back looks like this:

lordosis1.jpg

That means for me when I'm in a forward leaning address position my shoulders are on a flatter plane than someone without an exaggerated lower back curve. For me Chuck's takeaway would result in a swing plane far too flat to be useful. I'd be swinging irons line they were drivers! lol

Originally Posted by Gerald

Don't make the game complicated, don't buy a set of iron you have to hit like a pro to have nice resuts, we all need forgiviness in the swing and in the tools.


Agree completely. Play clubs that are as forgiving as possible right up until you *need* to be shaping the ball more. At that point your swing will be good enough to hit less forgiving irons and you'll be able to be more targetted with your shots.

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I watched the video and the first thing that came to my mind was "so it's basically a one piece takeaway".

I guess anything that helps you get your club in a better position would probably be helpful.

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I got nothing against the guy and quite a few of his video's have some nice points in them, I just think he over complicates things a bit and seems quite arrogant to me.

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Originally Posted by GolfBear

I watched the video and the first thing that came to my mind was "so it's basically a one piece takeaway".

I guess anything that helps you get your club in a better position would probably be helpful.



I felt the same thing. I actually was trying to feel that shoulder blade move last night.

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Homer Kelly -- Golfing Machine

Bobby Clampett -- Impact Zone

and throw in Stack & Tilt for good measure.  At least for my body type the best repeatable swing imaginable.  :D

All of these items above offer insight.  Impact Zone is the key to understanding the Golfing Machine's physics.

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