Do you believe in Karma?

[Yukari]

The more I experience life, more I believe in Karma.

Look at Tiger.  Now I like watching him play and dominate like no other, but ever since he went and cheated on his wife, his life has turned into a shamble.  First the divorce, then his health, then his agent....  It just keep piling up.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Yukari

First the divorce, then his health, then his agent....  It just keep piling up.

His agent isn't really a thing at all.

I do, but I also think people attribute too much to it, too. Arnie was known to enjoy the ladies too and what came of that? Did karma give him a pass for some reason?

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by iacas

His agent isn't really a thing at all.

I do, but I also think people attribute too much to it, too. Arnie was known to enjoy the ladies too and what came of that? Did karma give him a pass for some reason?

No he didn't get a pass. Have you ever seen a Pennzoil commercial?  How about the multi-colored umbrella logo? Or the drink? Arnold was reported saying, "Karma's a bitch."

[Kieran123]

No. Events in life are coincidence or the direct result of a decision ( ie. Tiger cheats on his wife and gets a divorce....NOT then hurting his knee and losing form )

If I was to steal something from a store, I would not believe that say, in the future, my house got robbed was a result of me stealing. Pure coincidence

People get away with doing terrible things their whole lives and get away with it. People spend their whole lives doing good things only to be shat on over and over.

I think people should get what they deserve, but that is often not the case

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

No. Events in life are coincidence or the direct result of a decision ( ie. Tiger cheats on his wife and gets a divorce....NOT then hurting his knee and losing form )

If I was to steal something from a store, I would not believe that say, in the future, my house got robbed was a result of me stealing. Pure coincidence

People get away with doing terrible things their whole lives and get away with it. People spend their whole lives doing good things only to be shat on over and over.

I think people should get what they deserve, but that is often not the case

+1

[Harmonious]

Eventually, you reap what you sow.  Some of those in the "celebrity" class seem to think that they are immune from it, but karma (or whatever you want to call it) seems to eventually catch up with them ....John Edwards...Bernie Madoff...Anthony Weiner...Tiger Woods....the list goes on and on.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by iacas

I do, but I also think people attribute too much to it, too. Arnie was known to enjoy the ladies too and what came of that? Did karma give him a pass for some reason?

Karma didn't give Arnie a pass, it kicked his butt; karma for Arnie was Jack Nicklaus (and a balky putter).

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Eventually, you reap what you sow.  Some of those in the "celebrity" class seem to think that they are immune from it, but karma (or whatever you want to call it) seems to eventually catch up with them ....John Edwards...Bernie Madoff...Anthony Weiner...Tiger Woods....the list goes on and on.

'Karma' only exists because people because they have it in their mind that events are associated. If there was no random association, there'd be no 'karma'.

Put it this way, if a complete @$$hole was to win the lottery people would say he didn't deserve to because of all the bad things that he'd done.

If the nicest guy in the world wins the lottery people say it's 'karma' because of all the nice things he's done.

In either event they both won the lottery and it was purely by chance, not because some all-seeing omniscient being made it so or because of 'karma' otherwise we'd only ever get nice people having fortunate occurences.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

'Karma' only exists because people because they have it in their mind that events are associated. If there was no random association, there'd be no 'karma'.

Put it this way, if a complete @$$hole was to win the lottery people would say he didn't deserve to because of all the bad things that he'd done.

If the nicest guy in the world wins the lottery people say it's 'karma' because of all the nice things he's done.

In either event they both won the lottery and it was purely by chance, not because some all-seeing omniscient being made it so or because of 'karma' otherwise we'd only ever get nice people having fortunate occurences.

In a lot of documented cases, the ass who wins the lottery ends up losing it all.  And in a lot of cases, the nice winner is able to use his newfound wealth to help others as well as himself.

I cannot agree that it doesn't matter whether we do good or ill; that our successes or failures are just due to random chance.

[MiniBlueDragon]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

In a lot of documented cases, the ass who wins the lottery ends up losing it all.  And in a lot of cases, the nice winner is able to use his newfound wealth to help others as well as himself.

I cannot agree that it doesn't matter whether we do good or ill; that our successes or failures are just due to random chance.

It's human nature to try and feel control over things or to draw associations where there are none...

Someone can't just be a "nice person"; there has to be a reason behind it. "He had loving parents", "he was brought up well", "he has a nice group of friends", "he found Jesus" etc.

The same goes for someone who's an *******; he had a bad upbringing, "he's possessed by the devil", "it's the friends he hangs around with that make him that way" etc.

How do we know that the ******* above isn't just an ******* because he enjoys it? Maybe he's an ******* because he knows no different? Maybe he's not an ******* at all and it's the perspective of the person who thinks he's an ******* that's wrong?

To take your examples above, an ass who wins the lottery and doesn't lose it all is never documented as there's nothing there to report on, therefore we have a one-sided view on it; we believe that 'karma' should occur because he doesn't 'deserve' it and that he should lose it all. We draw an association that isn't there and once we've drawn that conclusion we ignore the situation and move on to the next random association we can draw. It's only when that previous association we formed then comes to fruitition that we pipe up with, "aha! See? Karma!" but nothing is said of the times that doesn't happen.

I'm not saying it doesn't matter if we're good or evil in life because it definitely does, however life's successes or failures are either born of our own desire to make them happen (I worked my butt off for five years and because a manager with more responsibility, more money and more spare time to enjoy my life with the family) or by freak occurence (I saw a lottery ticket blowing around in the wind, caught it and it was the winning ticket)

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by MiniBlueDragon

I'm not saying it doesn't matter if we're good or evil in life because it definitely does, however life's successes or failures are either born of our own desire to make them happen (I worked my butt off for five years and because a manager with more responsibility, more money and more spare time to enjoy my life with the family) or by freak occurence (I saw a lottery ticket blowing around in the wind, caught it and it was the winning ticket)

I suppose we could go round and round on this, and still never get anywhere.  Just the same, I think I will keep on trying to be a "good" person and see how that works out for me.  It has been OK so far.

[Yukari]

I have to agree with Harmonious.  You'll eventually reap what you sow.  It's almost like the "butterfly effect."  For those not familiar with the butterfly effect, it is a scientific theory that in essence say a flutter of a butterfly wing will influence the weather hundreds of miles away.

MiniBlueDragon's assertion that everything is purely coincidence ignores the butterfly effect.  I would have to respectfully disagree that everything is purely coincidence.  I think how one acts will influence how others act.

Basically, what you do will influence how others act which in turn influences still others, so on and so on.  What comes back to you then is the result of how you acted in the first instance.

[Yukari]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

No he didn't get a pass. Have you ever seen a Pennzoil commercial?  How about the multi-colored umbrella logo? Or the drink? Arnold was reported saying, "Karma's a bitch."

I am familiar with all those, but I don't know how that is related to Karma.  What happened in those instances?

[MiniBlueDragon]

Karma and the Butterfly Effect are just as provable/unprovable as God or Isis or a Celestial Teapot.

Karma, the Butterfly Effect and God are beliefs people have based on their life's lessons whether they be handed down from parents, teachings in education or church, teachings in life etc. None of them are inherently provable, nor disprovable. The believers will live their life happy in the comfort of their faith and pitying those without faith and the non-believers will mock the believers for living their lives based on what they perceive as superstition and nonsense.

If believing/disbelieving (delete as applicable) enriches your life then go with it, just allow others to live their lives as they want to as well.

[bplewis24]

Arguing these things is somewhat futile because there is no way to prove/disprove they are associated.  What we choose to believe isn't as significant as how we believe it to be manifested.

In other words, if you DO believe what's happening to Tiger is karma, how long does it last?  He has already lost his dominant position in the sport, his intimidating aura, having major health issues, and more importantly has a fractured family after losing his wife.  Considering his crime is infidelity, a fractured family is essentially punishment befitting the crime.  All the rest of this stuff?  The media backlash, the failures at his chosen profession... that's icing on the cake (for lack of a better term).  The things he is subject to are worse than what some actual criminals have to go through, so when does it end?

People aren't going to stop hating him, but I do believe he will get his game back soon.  I don't think any amount of karma will prevent that happening, unless said karma just happens to coincide with his physical breakdown.

Brandon

[newtogolf]

Karma is too close to religion to have a logical discussion about it, as MBD said, you either believe or don't believe in such things as god and karma.  If you believe it's likely you are passionate about it.

The way I get this karma thing works is that bad things happen to people that do bad things.  So for those that believe in Karma do we assume that everyone that died, was injured, or lost their home during the Japanese earthquake and tsunami were people that did bad things and brought this on themselves?   How about our soldiers that are killed protecting our country?  Just trying to figure out how this thing works....since some of you blame Tigers recent injuries on his infidelity.

[sean_miller]

Tiger Woods probably believes in karma. It's sort of a prerequisite for being a Buddhist, isn't it? Luckily the struggles he's going through now will help even things out for his next life.

[beisenhauer]

"We can evade reality, but we cannot evade the consequences of evading reality." --Ayn Rand

Sooner or later, reality catches up. That's karma.