high school golfer turned down 5,000

[neophytea]

Even if the situation does not put your amateur status in trouble with the USGA, you will be in big trouble with NCAA rules.

[newtogolf]

Wonder if the rules are the same for H.S. and college kids that can win a car or trip by putting a puck passed the cardboard goalie at hockey games.  If they accept the prize does that cause them to forfeit their college sports eligibility?  Doesn't quite seem fair.

[Shindig]

Even if the situation does not put your amateur status in trouble with the USGA, you will be in big trouble with NCAA rules.

Yep. In fact, there are a few instances of the NCAA rules being more stringent with respect to amateur status than USGA rules. One controversy with Tiger Woods was back in Spring 1996, when he had lunch with Arnold Palmer. The total tab came out to something like $25, and Mr. Palmer picked up the bill. I forget exactly how this was resolved, but boy was the NCAA pissed.

[jshots]

It seems to me that the rules about taking prizes refer to a contest of golf. I hardly think you could call a putting contest playing the game of golf. The rules even say that the game of golf involves playing a ball from a teeing ground ...  of which you don't have in a putting contest. Its not really a golf competition. Seems like you could argue along these lines. Dealing with the NCAA would probably still have troubles.

[Shindig]

It seems to me that the rules about taking prizes refer to a contest of golf. I hardly think you could call a putting contest playing the game of golf. The rules even say that the game of golf involves playing a ball from a teeing ground ...  of which you don't have in a putting contest. Its not really a golf competition. Seems like you could argue along these lines. Dealing with the NCAA would probably still have troubles.

Likewise, them telling you where to start the ball is like a teeing ground. You could say that you weren't allowed to move it two club-lengths back; they'd point out that the rules don't obligate the committee to place the tees in such a way to allow this. You could also argue that you weren't allowed to tee up your ball. They'd probably say that you were allowed to, but why would you? Since local rules limiting clubs to a number other than 14 are acceptable (e.g., 5-club contests), and rules requiring a putter are acceptable, they could say that they had that local rule (one club, at least one of which must be a putter). Long story short, I'm sure a contest involving putting can easily fit into the definition. Closest to the pin of various sorts (either full shot or short game) might not be as arguable, since you aren't putting the ball into one or more holes.

[ochmude]

Additionally, the USGA has already published a decision that's pretty specific on the issue.

Quote:

3-1/1 Closest to the Hole, Long Drive and Putting Contests Offering Prize Money

Q. If a player competes in a closest to the hole, long drive or putting contest for a cash prize, is he considered to be "playing for prize money," in breach of Rule 3-1 ?

A. In these circumstances, it is not considered that the player is playing for prize money in breach of Rule 3-1 . However, it is considered that the player who accepts the prize would be liable for forfeiture of Amateur Status under Rule 3-1 .

[Clambake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clambake

3-2. Prize Money

a. General

An amateur golfer must not accept a prize (other than a symbolic prize ) or prize voucher of retail value in excess of $750 or the equivalent, or such a lesser figure as may be decided by the USGA. This limit applies to the total prizes or prize vouchers received by an amateur golfer in any one competition or series of competitions.

Exception: A prize, including a cash prize, for a hole-in-one made while playing golf may exceed the above prize limit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mihi4

Wow, that's interesting - there's a difference between the rules of the USGA and the R&A; in this matter.    Here's Rule 3-2 of the R&A;:

Quote:

a. General
An amateur golfer must not accept a prize (other than a symbolic prize) or prize voucher of retail value in excess of £500 or the equivalent, or such a lesser figure as may be decided by the Governing Body. This limit applies to the total prizes or prize vouchers received by an amateur golfer in any one competition or series of competitions, excluding any hole-in-one prize (see Rule 3-2b ).

b. Hole-in-One Prizes
The limits prescribed in Rule 3-2a apply to a prize for a hole-in-one. However, such a prize may be accepted in addition to any other prize won in the same competition.

Sadly, a friend of mine, who won EUR 100.000,- in a HIO-contest lost his amateur status because he lives here in Europe and not in the US.

Interesting that the USGA and R&A; differ on their exemption for a player winning a prize for a hole-in-one.      But what is more interesting to me is that the rules don't address one's residency - they only address where you play.    Your friend lost his amateur status not because he lives in Europe but because that's where he plays.     So technically, a player in the US who has won such a prize in the US and kept playing as an amateur (as allowed under the USGA rule) would technically not be an amateur if he then went and played in an event governed by R&A; rules.      If you're a really good amateur player and dream of playing in the Walker cup, you better think twice about accepting a prize you might win in the US!

[anotherday]

Originally Posted by BigTazz53

Good choice, but if he had no desire to claim the prize why place oneself in a situation to have to make a tough choice.

Especially in this economic time.

Because of the feeling of being in competition and the experience from being under that pressure is well worth the $5000 he passed up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

I have to say, I've never considered myself a sell-out, but I would have taken the $35,000 pickup that WUTiger mentioned (and then sold it),

You still have to pay taxes on the car. That's why some people on game shows turn down because the extra income could bump them into a new tax bracket which equals more taxes come April. So... in case you ever win it big.. lol.

And knowing is half the battle!

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by anotherday

You still have to pay taxes on the car. That's why some people on game shows turn down because the extra income could bump them into a new tax bracket which equals more taxes come April. So... in case you ever win it big.. lol.

And knowing is half the battle!

Yea but your still going to make alot of money. Just because the manufacturer price is 35,000 doesnt mean you have to get that much. Also you could have a vehicle mover pick up the car so you dont put any miles on it and have them transport it, then try to make a deal with a dealership to buy it off you and explain how you got it. You could also try to sell it yourself to someone, people always like getting something that has a good story behind it and might be considered lucky.

There have also been new car tax deductions/tax breaks the past couple years when filing taxes so you would get alot of it back

[x129]

I enjoy being in the highest possible tax bracket. Trust me, it is a lot better to make a million dollars a year and pay 35% than to make 15k a year and pay 0%. Moving up to a higher tax bracket is not a bad thing and is not a reason to turn down a new car. You turn down the vacation because it is valued at 10k and you will have to pay 4k in taxes and you don't want to take that vacation (i.e. I don't care if it was a 50k cruise. Being on a boat for 3 weeks would not be my idea of fun).

I could imagine being able to play high school golf is worth a lot more than 5k. Personally I think it is time to get rid of all this amateur crap.

Originally Posted by anotherday

Because of the feeling of being in competition and the experience from being under that pressure is well worth the $5000 he passed up.

You still have to pay taxes on the car. That's why some people on game shows turn down because the extra income could bump them into a new tax bracket which equals more taxes come April. So... in case you ever win it big.. lol.

And knowing is half the battle!

[Clambake]

Originally Posted by anotherday

You still have to pay taxes on the car. That's why some people on game shows turn down because the extra income could bump them into a new tax bracket which equals more taxes come April. So... in case you ever win it big.. lol.

This is a fallacy and not how the the tax brackets (at least in the US)  work.   They brackets are progressive, and being bumped into the next higher bracket does NOT mean you pay that bracket's rate on all your income, just the amount above the bracket threshold.

For example, here are the 2011 US tax brackets:

$0-$8,500	10%
$8,500-$34,500	15%
$34,500-$83,600	25%
$83,600-$174,400	28%
$174,400-$379,150	33%
$379,150+	35%

Let's say you make $100k a year in taxable income.   What you pay is 10% on the first $8500, 15% on ($32,550 minus $8,025), 25% on ($65,725 minus $32,550), and 28% on ($100,000 minus $65,575) for a total of $22,372 in taxes.    So although you are in the 28% bracket, you've paid 22.3% effective tax rate.

Now assume you win $75,000 on a game show.      Your total income now is $175k, so you're now in the 33% bracket.    But your tax owed now is the above amount on the first $100k of your income ($22,372) plus 28% on the first $74,400 of your winnings and 33% on the last $600 of those winnings.   Your tax liability is now a total of $43,402 in taxes on your $175k in total income, a 24.8% effective tax rate.

If anyone here is turning down their prize money because they feel being bumped into a higher tax bracket will make them pay even more tax on the rest of their income, please PM me and I'll take those winnings off your hands.     It's a win-win for all of us:  you won't be burdened with that tax, the US government will make some more tax revenue on those winnings (so all of us who use government services will see those benefits), and I'll gladly pay the incremental tax on those winnings and be very happy being bumped into a higher bracket.

[DocWu1948]

If he makes his goals, 4 more years of HS golf and 4 years on the college golf team. Divide that $5000 prize  by 8 years on a team, and the net loss is about $12/week.

[iPutt]

So if you're an amateur playing in say The Masters, you can't accept any of the prize money you would earn if you make it to the weekend? Assuming of course that you wanted to keep your amateur status. And also, are all the contestants on the Big Break now considered pros since they're playing for money? Or is it just the winner that has to turn pro because he's the one winning the money?

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by iPutt

So if you're an amateur playing in say The Masters, you can't accept any of the prize money you would earn if you make it to the weekend? Assuming of course that you wanted to keep your amateur status. And also, are all the contestants on the Big Break now considered pros since they're playing for money? Or is it just the winner that has to turn pro because he's the one winning the money?

I think all the contestants on the Big Break are already professionals

[anotherday]

Originally Posted by iPutt

So if you're an amateur playing in say The Masters, you can't accept any of the prize money you would earn if you make it to the weekend? Assuming of course that you wanted to keep your amateur status. And also, are all the contestants on the Big Break now considered pros since they're playing for money? Or is it just the winner that has to turn pro because he's the one winning the money?

An amateur Monday qualified the other week (maybe other month by now) and won the event. Money goes down to the next person that is a pro. Plus, I'm not sure if someone can choose to take the money and turn pro after they have declared that they are playing as an amateur for the tournament.

Just looked it up: Russel Henley and it was on May 8th on the Nationwide Tour. Doesn't say in the article, but I'm assuming he Monday Qualified..

EDIT: Just saw the outcry over my post about moving to the next tax bracket.. I guess everything you read on the internet is not true. https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?articleid=201101170546SMRTMONYNEWS_____30242&IMG;=N&cat;=default&ccsource;=rss-default

At any rate, my financial advice wouldn't come from these two places, to name a few: 1) An internet article, 2) A post on a golf forum

[x129]

That fidelity section of the taxes is really poorly written. On that 10k you might have to pay an additional 321 dollars if you are bumped into a higher tax bracket but that is on top of the ~2800 you would pay if you didn't switch brackets. 10k-~3k is still 7k dollars in your pocket. That is a heck of a lot better than 0.

And the part about paying taxes to other states  is even worse. 5000-528+150-39.95 is not a net 414 dollar loss. It is a 4600 dollar profit.

It is just tiring to keep hearing all of these mistruths repeated.  I am guessing with a new presidential campaign kicking off we will get to hear them again from both sides.

Originally Posted by anotherday

An amateur Monday qualified the other week (maybe other month by now) and won the event. Money goes down to the next person that is a pro. Plus, I'm not sure if someone can choose to take the money and turn pro after they have declared that they are playing as an amateur for the tournament.

Just looked it up: Russel Henley and it was on May 8th on the Nationwide Tour. Doesn't say in the article, but I'm assuming he Monday Qualified..

EDIT: Just saw the outcry over my post about moving to the next tax bracket.. I guess everything you read on the internet is not true. https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?articleid=201101170546SMRTMONYNEWS_____30242&IMG;=N&cat;=default&ccsource;=rss-default

At any rate, my financial advice wouldn't come from these two places, to name a few: 1) An internet article, 2) A post on a golf forum

[ilikefishes]

I am a PGA member and I carry a handicap. I also am a member of our men's league. In fact, they elected me Pres. this year.

[Bigtank]

Originally Posted by anotherday

An amateur Monday qualified the other week (maybe other month by now) and won the event. Money goes down to the next person that is a pro. Plus, I'm not sure if someone can choose to take the money and turn pro after they have declared that they are playing as an amateur for the tournament.

Just looked it up: Russel Henley and it was on May 8th on the Nationwide Tour. Doesn't say in the article, but I'm assuming he Monday Qualified..

EDIT: Just saw the outcry over my post about moving to the next tax bracket.. I guess everything you read on the internet is not true. https://news.fidelity.com/news/news.jhtml?articleid=201101170546SMRTMONYNEWS_____30242&IMG;=N&cat;=default&ccsource;=rss-default

At any rate, my financial advice wouldn't come from these two places, to name a few: 1) An internet article, 2) A post on a golf forum

He was a sponsor's excemption.  The event exempts several of the UGA golf teams players every year.  Russell Henley, Hudson Swafford and Harris English have all received exemptions

The NCAA is very testy about receiving compsensation of ANY kind as a result of your athletic skill in the sport in which you compete.  In fact I think they many of them forgo the courtesy cars to make sure the NCAA leaves them alone.