Jack Nicklaus on a Centered Pivot

[iacas]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I've read from Jack seem rather consistent with JTJ's post regarding the holding of the hair.  If there was a scale under each of Jack's feet, do you suppose he has equal weight on both feet in the centre photograph? Relative to the photos on the left and the right?

I've read quotes that are not consistent at all with that... including the quote that started this thread. Staying "on the ball" (his words) means not moving laterally. You could "stay on the ball" but move up and down.

You tell me what the scales would say. Don't be fooled by his left heel coming off the ground. It doesn't mean there's "little" weight on his left side. I can stand with both of my heels off the ground. Static weight and feelings of pressure are very different things. Look at the picture. How is his body mass (and thus his weight) distributed if he were frozen in that position?

Time to start the cookout. Back tomorrow.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by iacas

I've read quotes that are not consistent at all with that... including the quote that started this thread. Staying "on the ball" (his words) means not moving laterally. You could "stay on the ball" but move up and down.

You tell me what the scales would say. Don't be fooled by his left heel coming off the ground. It doesn't mean there's "little" weight on his left side. I can stand with both of my heels off the ground. Static weight and feelings of pressure are very different things. Look at the picture. How is his body mass (and thus his weight) distributed if he were frozen in that position?

Time to start the cookout. Back tomorrow.

Yes of course, Happy Birthday USA.

I think the scales would be enlightening. I read someone say in the early 90s about Hogan's book(s).  I believe there is a weight shift, although not to the degree Hogan described, but as can be seen in the photos of (fat) Jack, regardless of which foot has more weight on it, his centre of gravity seems to be in relatively the same place.

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by kurisu

Uh, yeah, shaft length.

You only have a 2.5 degree lie angle difference between a 9 iron and a 4 iron, in the length of an iron shaft 2.5 degrees would hardly be noticeable

[kurisu]

You only have a 2.5 degree lie angle difference between a 9 iron and a 4 iron, in the length of an iron shaft 2.5 degrees would hardly be noticeable

I see. I feel a huge difference in length and "flatness" between a 9 iron and 4 iron. And the lower loft of the 4 iron makes the ball curve a lot easier sideways. Must be just me then.

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by iacas

I've read quotes that are not consistent at all with that... including the quote that started this thread. Staying "on the ball" (his words) means not moving laterally. You could "stay on the ball" but move up and down.

You tell me what the scales would say. Don't be fooled by his left heel coming off the ground. It doesn't mean there's "little" weight on his left side. I can stand with both of my heels off the ground. Static weight and feelings of pressure are very different things. Look at the picture. How is his body mass (and thus his weight) distributed if he were frozen in that position?

Time to start the cookout. Back tomorrow.

It's time to get your scales recalibrated if you think there is not a massive weight transfer to his back leg

[Harmonious]

Looks about 90% on the back leg at the top of the backswing. Also, his head may have stayed "centered" but it was by no means stationary. Lots of up and down movement, which is not necessarily bad, but it certainly wasn't stationary.

[RC]

Jack's head always moved in a circle, actually a pretty large circle. Grout may have held his hair, but his head moved.  I first saw him in 1968, and watched him hit balls from less than 10 feet away at the range.  It was awesome, unlike any swing I had ever seen.  He was huge (looked like a football lineman) and he moved all over the place but stayed somehow centered while knocking the crap out of the ball.  His turn was huge.  Pure brute strength plus a ballet of movement.  The ball went so much higher than anyone of his generation that your first thought was he was popping it up... but then it would land far beyond any place you might have thought possible.  On the range that day he was flying his three wood where the longest drives of other pros were rolling out, especially Arnie's who surely noted the fact he was being bombed.  Everyone was astonished.  I have always wondered what Jack in his prime would do with the modern ball and clubs.  I was never much of a Jack fan, but I think he swung harder than anyone of his era, and today I think that power would put him right there with the longest of the modern era if he had the modern ball and clubs in his prime.

We now know Tiger in his prime did not hit the ball as far as some of today's really long drivers.  What we will never know is if Jack would have been the longest.  He once was.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

You only have a 2.5 degree lie angle difference between a 9 iron and a 4 iron, in the length of an iron shaft 2.5 degrees would hardly be noticeable

Precisely. So the planes are different. The more vertical the shaft plane the less effect outward the resultant path will be when you increase the downward angle of attack. Another reason why shorter clubs curve less than longer clubs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Looks about 90% on the back leg at the top of the backswing.

Just because his left heel comes off the ground doesn't mean he put 90% of his weight on the right foot. Don't make the rookie mistake of confusing static weight and feelings (or measurements) of pressure. I can put 90% of my weight LEFT and lift the left heel off the ground. I don't know why I'd want to, but I can.

[saevel25]

This is a good way to isolate one leg or another when doing a squate exercise ;p

Quote:

I can put 90% of my weight LEFT and lift the left heel off the ground. I don't know why I'd want to, but I can

[uttexas]

Looks about 90% on the back leg at the top of the backswing. Also, his head may have stayed "centered" but it was by no means stationary. Lots of up and down movement, which is not necessarily bad, but it certainly wasn't stationary.

Pause the video at :05 His left hip and butt are so far forward at the top of the backswing, I'd say his weight distribution at the top is close to 50/50 Also, his rear leg has significantly straightened, and with the forward left hip/butt, it looks like he is leaning into his left side at the top. He might sway a hair to the right at the beginning of the backswing with driver, but gets back to centered at the top.

[motteler621]

Originally Posted by uttexas

Pause the video at :05 His left hip and butt are so far forward at the top of the backswing, I'd say his weight distribution at the top is close to 50/50

Also, his rear leg has significantly straightened, and with the forward left hip/butt, it looks like he is leaning into his left side at the top.

He might sway a hair to the right at the beginning of the backswing with driver, but gets back to centered at the top.

His left hip and butt are in the same place as address at the top of backswing, they arent "so far forward". You dont have to shift laterally off the ball to have a weight shift into your back leg.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by motteler621

His left hip and butt are in the same place as address at the top of backswing, they arent "so far forward". You dont have to shift laterally off the ball to have a weight shift into your back leg.

You're not using "weight shift" properly. Where's his "weight" in this image? 55/45 right at most.

Quote:

Originally Posted by uttexas

Pause the video at :05 His left hip and butt are so far forward at the top of the backswing, I'd say his weight distribution at the top is close to 50/50

Also, his rear leg has significantly straightened, and with the forward left hip/butt, it looks like he is leaning into his left side at the top.

He might sway a hair to the right at the beginning of the backswing with driver, but gets back to centered at the top.

Yup.

Also, here he is starting down.

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Looks about 90% on the back leg at the top of the backswing. Also, his head may have stayed "centered" but it was by no means stationary. Lots of up and down movement, which is not necessarily bad, but it certainly wasn't stationary.

100% correct, weight transfers to the back leg and is braced on the inside

[iacas]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

100% correct, weight transfers to the back leg and is braced on the inside

Not a big one for pictures, are you John? It's nowhere near 90%.

[Phil McGleno]

Originally Posted by johnthejoiner

100% correct, weight transfers to the back leg and is braced on the inside

Fat Jack's "weight" didn't "transfer" just because his left heel came off the ground. Stand up. Make a swing where your weight goes FORWARD in the backswing but you still lift your left heel off the ground. It's completely possible.

Edit: Thanks, ICAS beat me to it.

By the by, none of us are saying that you can't "shift your weight" and play great golf. I started this thread with a quote from freakin' Fat Jack himself. Read it. Discuss it. What's his head doing? Where's his WEIGHT? Staying pretty centered. Some of y'all are apparently incapable of looking at a picture and saying "yep, I see that line there (thanks IACS) and see it's not 90% of his weight to the left of the line and 10% to the right (face-on camera)."

But go ahead, disagree with Jack all you want. What he said is plain as day.

[johnthejoiner]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Fat Jack's "weight" didn't "transfer" just because his left heel came off the ground. Stand up. Make a swing where your weight goes FORWARD in the backswing but you still lift your left heel off the ground. It's completely possible.

Edit: Thanks, ICAS beat me to it.

By the by, none of us are saying that you can't "shift your weight" and play great golf. I started this thread with a quote from freakin' Fat Jack himself. Read it. Discuss it. What's his head doing? Where's his WEIGHT? Staying pretty centered. Some of y'all are apparently incapable of looking at a picture and saying "yep, I see that line there (thanks IACS) and see it's not 90% of his weight to the left of the line and 10% to the right (face-on camera)."

But go ahead, disagree with Jack all you want. What he said is plain as day.

Your the one mentioning his heel "maybe its your foot fetish". His arms and club alone on the back swing are enough to make a weight transfer of about 70/30

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by uttexas

Pause the video at :05 His left hip and butt are so far forward at the top of the backswing, I'd say his weight distribution at the top is close to 50/50

Also, his rear leg has significantly straightened, and with the forward left hip/butt, it looks like he is leaning into his left side at the top.

He might sway a hair to the right at the beginning of the backswing with driver, but gets back to centered at the top.

Pause the video at :45 and tell me that's 50/50.  Only in your imagination.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by Phil McGleno

Fat Jack's "weight" didn't "transfer" just because his left heel came off the ground. Stand up. Make a swing where your weight goes FORWARD in the backswing but you still lift your left heel off the ground. It's completely possible.

Are you saying Jack Nicklaus didn't transfer any weight to his back foot?  That he swung as you suggest?