Jack Nicklaus on a Centered Pivot

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by michaeljames92

Golf club/ball collision isn't just as simple as energy transfer. There are more things at play.

Such as . . . ?

[Zeph]

The ball [b]flight[/b] is of course a result of different variables, but the collision is pretty straight forward. You got a moving clubhead hitting a stationary golf ball. I don't know how much energy is lost in the collision, but it wouldn't be far off if you worked with numbers right before and after impact without taking internal energy and other losses into the equation. Assuming energy is conserved during the collision.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Zeph

The ball flight is of course a result of different variables, but the collision is pretty straight forward. You got a moving clubhead hitting a stationary golf ball. I don't know how much energy is lost in the collision, but it wouldn't be far off if you worked with numbers right before and after impact without taking internal energy and other losses into the equation.

Assuming energy is conserved during the collision.

Every ball hit with loft loses energy (puts it into spin rather than simple velocity).

So that's one thing that complicates the math.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic, though, to which we'll now get back.

[michaeljames92]

Originally Posted by iacas

Every ball hit with loft loses energy (puts it into spin rather than simple velocity).

So that's one thing that complicates the math.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic, though, to which we'll now get back.

Exactly, Coefficient of Restitution comes into play too, which is more or less the Ratio of speed of objects after a collision divided by the speed of objects before collision. It's more complicated than some people think.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Such as . . . ?

See above.

[allin]

I have read all the way through this thread tonight. The posts have moved from the initial comment about a centered pivot/head to weight shift, mass etc. The odd thing is that no one really addressed why they believe weight shift, possibly laterally is positive. I believe weight does shift at least slightly. The relevance is that this shift is away and helps stretch the muscles storing energy for the downswing. As the shoulders arms and hands turn away some weight, the levers / arms accentuate this feeling of weight shifting but only a small amount actually does. FWIW I think Nicklaus left heel lifting is a function of his trying to raise his hands higher than his flexibility allowed. The forward thrust of his hips which he triggered with what has been described as leg drive further stretches his muscles storing even more energy and shifts weight far enough that when his body stops shifting and that energy is transferred by the arms through the spot weight has reached slightly in front of the ball. I suppose a lateral weight shift, as long as you still turn and you are flexible enough to control the move and shift the weight forward far enough would transfer more power. For a big strong guy like Nicklaus it wasn't needed and the loss of efficiency more than offset any gain. I think if you look at smaller guys extra turn is more likely the preferred power source, for the same reason, lateral weight shift is difficult to control and makes getting weight in front of the ball on the downswing less consistent and therefore less efficient.

[iacas]

Not a huge fan of everything said here (mainly about the hips staying level), but on the topic of weight vs. pressure, Jack seems to "get it." Not a big weight shift at all, not a slide back, just increased pressure.

[joekelly]

Iacas, nice to read that you think Jack 'gets it' !!  Surely he must have been doing something correctly.  Or was it only many, many fortuitous accidents?.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by joekelly

Iacas, nice to read that you think Jack 'gets it' !!  Surely he must have been doing something correctly.  Or was it only many, many fortuitous accidents?.

He did a ton of things correctly. All 5 Simple Keys® in fact. ;)

Some of his moves were pretty standard, some a bit quirky. I've got no problem with quirks if the player can do them a lot. They tend to work better among pros who have the time and patience and hit enough balls that they can groove them, but there are exceptions to that as well.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the topic, though. Let's stick to that if we could.