Anti doping agency to consider adding tobacco to the banned list...

[meenman]

Is everyone here in favor of losing more personal freedom? If you dont want people to smoke anywhere than make it illegal. What's next - banning alcohol, soft drinks and fast food? What cracks me up is the same people that want to ban smoking everywhere seem to have no problem with the law breakers smoking the hippie lettuce. Last I checked, tobacco was a legal product, thay is overly taxed to keep this country going. As a disclaimer, I have been in the tobacco business for 15 of the last 20 years and am a former smoker that still does enjoy a fine cigar on occassion.

[newtogolf]

You can't argue that 2nd hand smoke is both a health and air pollution issue.  I prefer not to smell cigarettes or cigars when I'm on a golf course or in a park.  No harm comes to me if the person on the course is eating fast food so I don't see how they are related.  I don't like to see individuals rights taken away, but it's not fair to non-smokers who don't want to smell smoke or risk their health when in public so either way someone loses.

Originally Posted by meenman

Is everyone here in favor of losing more personal freedom? If you dont want people to smoke anywhere than make it illegal.

What's next - banning alcohol, soft drinks and fast food?

What cracks me up is the same people that want to ban smoking everywhere seem to have no problem with the law breakers smoking the hippie lettuce.

Last I checked, tobacco was a legal product, thay is overly taxed to keep this country going.

As a disclaimer, I have been in the tobacco business for 15 of the last 20 years and am a former smoker that still does enjoy a fine cigar on occassion.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

You can't argue that 2nd hand smoke is both a health and air pollution issue.  I prefer not to smell cigarettes or cigars when I'm on a golf course or in a park.  No harm comes to me if the person on the course is eating fast food so I don't see how they are related.  I don't like to see individuals rights taken away, but it's not fair to non-smokers who don't want to smell smoke or risk their health when in public so either way someone loses.

Very true - and all smokers should be aware that most people hate the smell of it and should keep their distance.

But....

It's not really risking your health compared to any day driving in the city - in fact, the amount of shit we inhale living in the city is far worse than what you would inhale on the golf course in a foursome with a smoker.

Smoking does cause air pollution - and smoking is not a necessity, but neither is NASCAR or Formula One. And out of those 3, only one is truly addictive.

The fact is, smokers should be aware it stinks and people are offended by it - they shouldn't have to deal with our second hand smoke and I have no problem with that and I would never offend someone by smoking in their face.

But there are far worse things we should be worried about. eg. the ridiculous amount of plastic bottles North America goes through. But why worry about the pollution you can't see and doesn't effect you directly, when you can focus on smokers who do directly effect you.

Cigarette butts all over the place is disgusting , but compare that to the rest of the junk we throw away and it should be somewhere near the bottom of the focus. We just don't see the rest of the junk.

[jamo]

The question is where do people's rights end? Who's right is greater- a smoker's right to smoke around other people, or a bystander's right to breathe clean air?

[newtogolf]

That's the issue, smokers believe they should have the right to smoke where they like and non-smokers feel it's an infringement on their rights to have to breath in the 2nd hand smoke.  Kieran makes many valid points about the singling out of smokers while ignoring other types and sources of pollution.  I'm not any happier when I have to smell the exhaust of a diesal truck yet we seem to accept them as a necessary evil.

Originally Posted by jamo

The question is where do people's rights end? Who's right is greater- a smoker's right to smoke around other people, or a bystander's right to breathe clean air?

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by jamo

The question is where do people's rights end? Who's right is greater- a smoker's right to smoke around other people, or a bystander's right to breathe clean air?

Rights are equal. The smoker has the right to smoke, and the non smoker has the right to breathe fresh air. The smoker CAN smoke and not effect the non smokers air. If the smoker isn't a jackass that is

[ElWagonne]

Originally Posted by jamo

The question is where do people's rights end? Who's right is greater- a smoker's right to smoke around other people, or a bystander's right to breathe clean air?

On a non-golf related note, one of the major hospitals around here is about to implement a rule saying they won't hire you if you smoke (i.e. pre-employment tobacco screenings)

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by Kieran123

Rights are equal. The smoker has the right to smoke, and the non smoker has the right to breathe fresh air. The smoker CAN smoke and not effect the non smokers air. If the smoker isn't a jackass that is

The smoker has to be a long way from the person who wants to breathe clean air.

The fact that the smoker probably doesn't care about his own health makes you wonder how considerate he's going to be of other people.

In a space where air is shared, the smoker does not have the right to contaminate the air others breathe.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by Shorty

1. The smoker has to be a long way from the person who wants to breathe clean air.

2. The fact that the smoker probably doesn't care about his own health makes you wonder how considerate he's going to be of other people.

3. In a space where air is shared, the smoker does not have the right to contaminate the air others breathe.

1. Depending on the situation. Eg. outside, someone can be 10 feet away down wind and smoke without bothering others, and again, if it does, then the smoker should move away - or he is a jackass

2. A lot of smokers do care about their own health. Nicotine is extremely addictive and not easy to quit for most people. It doesn't just come down to not caring. And yes, a lot of smokers are ignorant of others health concerns, and to be general, it is usually the older generations ( 50+ ) who grew up with smoking everywhere regardless. There are younger people who don't take others health concerns into consideration too, and it's rude and ignorant, but not all smokers think like this.

3. I quote "The smoker CAN smoke and not effect the non smokers air. If the smoker isn't a jackass that is". ie, go outside or somewhere away.

If I am at a friends house and want a smoke, I will go outside and smoke, and wait several minutes after I have finished for the smell to go away. I carry mints and usually have one after a smoke too. Smoking can be embarrassing when it is only yourself that smokes. We know it stinks and people hate it, but it's addictive - and I bet the majority of wish we didn't smoke.

[Paradox]

In what equates to a gigantic field..if you cannot avoid second hand smoke, then you must actively be seeking it out.  Campfires create smoke..ban them?  Grills create smoke..ban them?

the problem doesn't boil because its harmful..the problem boils because one person is doing something another thinks is disgusting/gross/unhealthy/ on and on and on.

I think the whole thing is just silly.  When people are eating..then yeah I can understand no smoking..I smoke and can't stand to smell it while I'm eating.  No smoking in restaurants is fine..same with public places that people have no choice but to go..but bars?  Really?  Its fine to go get crap-faced and kill your liver but god forbid you smell smoke?

[newtogolf]

What you do to your liver doesn't affect my health where as you smoking in a bar does.  The way you feel about smokers while you're eating is how most non-smokers feel about smelling cigarette or cigar smoke any time.  If we didn't care about our health or the smell we'd probably be smokers.

Originally Posted by Paradox

I think the whole thing is just silly.  When people are eating..then yeah I can understand no smoking..I smoke and can't stand to smell it while I'm eating.  No smoking in restaurants is fine..same with public places that people have no choice but to go..but bars?  Really?  Its fine to go get crap-faced and kill your liver but god forbid you smell smoke?

[Gresh24]

Quote:

Rights are equal. The smoker has the right to smoke, and the non smoker has the right to breathe fresh air.

Not sure how you can believe that, especially as a smoker.  Clearly in most areas, at least in my country/state, smoking is banned nearly everywhere in public, inferring that the rights aren't at all equal.

[Kieran123]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Quote:

Not sure how you can believe that, especially as a smoker.  Clearly in most areas, at least in my country/state, smoking is banned nearly everywhere in public, inferring that the rights aren't at all equal.

That's true. The smoker has the right to smoke, but not where he/she pleases. Rights are not equal, and they shouldn't be in certain scenarios ( like this one )

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

What you do to your liver doesn't affect my health where as you smoking in a bar does.  The way you feel about smokers while you're eating is how most non-smokers feel about smelling cigarette or cigar smoke any time.  If we didn't care about our health or the smell we'd probably be smokers.

thats great and all when you're in a confined space..but outside?  You(general term) wanna ban smoking OUTSIDE?  Why should you have more of a right to enjoy the outdoors than I do?  If I want to go stand in a field and smoke then I should be allowed to do just that.

[newtogolf]

1) I don't want to ban smoking OUTSIDE - the discussion was about during golf, and personally I don't want to play as a single and have to smell and inhale cigarette or cigar smoke from strangers or friends while I play, just as you don't want people smoking around you while you eat.

2) You get to enjoy the outdoors as much as non-smokers, you just don't get to fill it with stinky cancer causing smoke.

Originally Posted by Paradox

thats great and all when you're in a confined space..but outside?  You(general term) wanna ban smoking OUTSIDE?  Why should you have more of a right to enjoy the outdoors than I do?  If I want to go stand in a field and smoke then I should be allowed to do just that.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by Paradox

thats great and all when you're in a confined space..but outside?  You(general term) wanna ban smoking OUTSIDE?  Why should you have more of a right to enjoy the outdoors than I do?  If I want to go stand in a field and smoke then I should be allowed to do just that.

But, you said you are against it in (a ban) bars.  Some bars are about as confined a space as you can get.  I am so happy they banned smoking in all bars in my state.  It is much more enjoyable for me.  I'm on the fence on bars.  Even though I love it and I go out and enjoy it more, I think it should be up to the owners.

[newtogolf]

The issue with bars has as much to do with the establishments employees as it does the patrons.  Forcing people to inhale second hand smoke while they work was creating liability and health insurance problems.

Originally Posted by Gresh24

But, you said you are against it in (a ban) bars.  Some bars are about as confined a space as you can get.  I am so happy they banned smoking in all bars in my state.  It is much more enjoyable for me.  I'm on the fence on bars.  Even though I love it and I go out and enjoy it more, I think it should be up to the owners.

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

The issue with bars has as much to do with the establishments employees as it does the patrons.  Forcing people to inhale second hand smoke while they work was creating liability and health insurance problems.

Agred, but there are still a lot that allow it.  Again, it is a liability issue and risk the owner should determine if they want to take.  And I don't know of a lot of bar employees with health insurance benefits.