Joe Paterno and Penn State

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Yeah, I was going to touch on that.

I opened the link you gave, and it heads out with "Saint Joe No More". That much is undoubtedly true! The guy was grossly negligent beyond mere partial involvement. If this was known by the board that summarily fired him back when the story first broke, then they did the right thing without a doubt.

But having read the highlights, it seems like the concealment that they spoke is simply that, being aware of condemning facts, they simply decided not to let these facts be known. They were scared of the bad publicity.

Which makes me wonder if Joe had any issues at all with his own conscience during the fourteen years this was going on undetected.

However, there does not seem to be any active concealment in terms of an active attempt to make sure this does not become known. That's different from not coming out with it. My personal opinion, the former case would be gross negligence - though I'm not so sure it would be criminal - the latter case would probably be criminal.

With that said, and on second thought, if there is  room in the current NCAA rule book to punish Penn State for this, in either case, they should definitely go ahead with it. Just in case the message isn't clear enough, publicity takes no precedence over good conduct. Still don't think a full blown death penalty is the best solution. That would mean no more Penn State football forever. That's not fair on PSU generations past and coming.

Um... that's a cover-up.  Worse still, it allowed children to be raped.

[bwdial]

Oh, and Kapanda, a twenty year hiatus would be the "death penalty" as far as the NCAA is concerned.  In fact, the only "death penalty" ever handed out by the NCAA, and it was actually for only one season.  They would have been allowed to have a shortened season in the year after that, but they waited to the following year to re-start the program.

[Kapanda]

Not reporting equates to a cover up?

That sounds like a bad definition of the expression.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by bwdial

Oh, and Kapanda, a twenty year hiatus would be the "death penalty" as far as the NCAA is concerned.  In fact, the only "death penalty" ever handed out by the NCAA, and it was actually for only one season.  They would have been allowed to have a shortened season in the year after that, but they waited to the following year to re-start the program.

That's it?! That's waay too light!!

I didn't realise that!

Why the hell is that even called a death penalty?!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Why the hell is that even called a death penalty?!

Because their football progrem is "killed" for x years.

I don't think it matters though.  It seems to me that the stigma of this tragedy will, by itself, destroy the schools football program.  13 months ago, whenever I heard the words 'Penn State,' all that came to mind, was Joe Paterno and a really good football program.  Now, it's one thing and one thing only ... Jerry Sandusky.  And I think that when student athletes are picking their schools for the next several years, it will be the same for them, and that will have a large effect.  Maybe the NCAA doesn't have any jurisdiction to do anything here (I heard somebody on the radio say that this morning) but I don't think they will need to, the damage has already been done.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Because their football progrem is "killed" for x years.

I don't think it matters though.  It seems to me that the stigma of this tragedy will, by itself, destroy the schools football program.  13 months ago, whenever I heard the words 'Penn State,' all that came to mind, was Joe Paterno and a really good football program.  Now, it's one thing and one thing only ... Jerry Sandusky.  And I think that when student athletes are picking their schools for the next several years, it will be the same for them, and that will have a large effect.  Maybe the NCAA doesn't have any jurisdiction to do anything here (I heard somebody on the radio say that this morning) but I don't think they will need to, the damage has already been done.

That's dumb. That's not a death penalty.

But while your point is correct, I do think it matters. I would go as far as saying that, if there is nothing in the rulebook that allows NCAA to act at the moment, they should change it so they can in the future. As a matter of deterrence, it is important to send strong signals that certain stuff will simply not fly.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

That's dumb. That's not a death penalty.

But while your point is correct, I do think it matters. I would go as far as saying that, if there is nothing in the rulebook that allows NCAA to act at the moment, they should change it so they can in the future. As a matter of deterrence, it is important to send strong signals that certain stuff will simply not fly.

What would you have them do?

[rustyredcab]

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

The Freeh Report is now out.  And let's just say, it doesn't look good for the school or Paterno's legacy.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8159195/report-says-penn-state-senior-officials-disregarded-children-welfare

If players taking money is an offense that can penalize a program, where does this sort of thing rank?  Obviously not violation under NCAA regulations, but still a system-wide breach of morality and law.

Aside from the hundreds of millions the university is going to have to pay out to victims, do you think NCAA penalties will be in play?

I hope so but think not. Seems odd that a high school kid can take a bus ticket from a donor on a recruiting trip and the entire program can be at risk but the people in charge can allow a child rapist to keep molesting kids and nothing will happen to the program. They hide the facts to protect the program and nearly got away with it -- kids be damned.

[Kapanda]

In terms of rule change, a simple amendment that allows NCAA to intervene and punish entities that take a clearly questionable line of action. Take out as much ambiguity from such a rule as possible, but it is better to have something that is a bit ambiguous but frightening enough to get everyone to think twice, than to have anything that is even remotely similar to this Sandusky case to happen again.

On punishment, take into consideration everyone that is attached to PSU football, but punish the programme severely (if the existent rules allow). A punishment that would cripple the programme for decades.

The idea being to put it beyond any possible doubt that such gross misjudgement by anyone will be heavily punished.

But I thought the death penalty meant that PSU could no longer have a football programme. That's too far.

[newtogolf]

Part of that is due to the fact that player compensation and payoffs is common in the NCAA and they have covered most of the bases on it.  This level of corruption is new, and it's not isolated to the football program but to the entire university.  JoePa and Sandusky are associated to the football program, but the athletic director, vice president and president of PSU are also involved.  If the NCAA is going to sanction PSU it would have to suspend all programs and scholarships not just football if ti wanted to address the cover up.

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

I hope so but think not. Seems odd that a high school kid can take a bus ticket from a donor on a recruiting trip and the entire program can be at risk but the people in charge can allow a child rapist to keep molesting kids and nothing will happen to the program. They hide the facts to protect the program and nearly got away with it -- kids be damned.

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

That's it?! That's waay too light!!

I didn't realise that!

Why the hell is that even called a death penalty?!

SMU was only paying young men... not allowing a predator to rape them.

As to the definition of a cover-up,,,

World English Dictionary

cover-up
— n
1.	concealment or attempted concealment of a mistake, crime, etc
— vb (when intr, often foll by for )
2.	( tr ) to cover completely
3.	to attempt to conceal (a mistake or crime): she tried to cover up for her friend
4.	( intr ) boxing to defend the body and head with the arms

[Gresh24]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

Not reporting equates to a cover up?

Uh, yes.  That's exactly what a cover up is...

[clubchamp]

I don't think the NCAA will give them the death penalty but with this being such a huge media draw I don't think the NCAA will let it slide. I'm guessing they suspend them from post season play for a year or two and cut scholarships.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Uh, yes.  That's exactly what a cover up is...

So is not reporting unsolicited facts the same as doing something like destroying evidence to ensure facts are not discovered?

[rustyredcab]

Watching cable news tonight, I have a prediction: Joe Paterno, one of the greatest college football coaches ever, will be remembered for this the way OJ Simpson is remembered for the trial and not the running careers in college and the pros.

Ten years from now ask someone who Joe Paterno was and you'll get answers about covering for his assistant, the rapist, because he thought it was for the good of the school to look the other way while boys were abused and raped.

It is very sad for his legacy and more sad that he did what he did.

Lots of people will go down for this. There is plenty of blame to share. But ten years from now, Joe and Jerry will be the only names people think of when they think of Penn State.

[Kapanda]

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

Watching cable news tonight, I have a prediction: Joe Paterno, one of the greatest college football coaches ever, will be remembered for this the way OJ Simpson is remembered for the trial and not the running careers in college and the pros.

Ten years from now ask someone who Joe Paterno was and you'll get answers about covering for his assistant, the rapist, because he thought it was for the good of the school to look the other way while boys were abused and raped.

It is very sad for his legacy and more sad that he did what he did.

Lots of people will go down for this. There is plenty of blame to share. But ten years from now, Joe and Jerry will be the only names people think of when they think of Penn State.

Hard to see the college being a recruiting machine now... how do you improve such a terrible image?

[bwdial]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

So is not reporting unsolicited facts the same as doing something like destroying evidence to ensure facts are not discovered?

Yes.  It would be a different charge, but just as much of a cover-up.

[jamo]

So is not reporting unsolicited facts the same as doing something like destroying evidence to ensure facts are not discovered?

Yes. Either way you're preventing justice for victims of child rape.