Elbow Position and Its Effects on the Downswing

[boogielicious]

Quick terminology, pitch means that the right arm is externally rotated, Hogan on the left while Jack has a punch elbow. Obviously both can work.

What did Jack's look like at A5 and A6 though?  Furyk does this too, but his right elbow comes in hard from A4 to A6.

[iacas]

Furyk does this too, but his right elbow comes in hard from A4 to A6.

Furyk's elbow is WAY, WAY back. Nowhere near pitch elbow.

[nevets88]

Furyk's elbow is WAY, WAY back. Nowhere near pitch elbow.

I always noticed this. How does he NOT flip?

[iacas]

I always noticed this. How does he NOT flip?

General comment: I think people are too caught up in trying to achieve pitch elbow. A lot of great golf has been played from other positions.

[newtogolf]

Yes I think the "skipping" can be a good feel.

Both can work but even guys that are in punch won't have the rear elbow above the lead at A5, so yeah keep working on that

For me the skipping and submarine pitch feel the same, it seems to help remind me to rotate and avoid coming over the top.

[nevets88]

General comment: I think people are too caught up in trying to achieve pitch elbow. A lot of great golf has been played from other positions.

So if your elbow is "trailing more behind", there are still ways to achieve all keys and play well?

[scopek]

I guess I would say the ball.*

It's more so just a visual, or extreme feel, to emphasize that my elbow and right arm have to travel in a different direction than they currently are now. I'm not sure I would necessarily use the submarine feel on the course, but more so, when taking some practice swings in between shots when on the range.

In Ben Hogan's Five Lessons, he talks about using the feeling of "skipping a rock across a still pond" to teach people to hit the ball better. It's kind of along the same lines of that. I mostly use these as something familiar I can see in my mind's eye, so I can understand the change better.

Like I said above, the primary feel here for me is feeling the right elbow (and arm) "under and pitchy" throughout my swing, even the backswing, like Zach Johnson does. My instructor James wants me to work on this because I can get in bad positions like I shared in that picture of my A5 above.

I mostly bumped the thread because I wanted to include some new feels for the people out there who are also working on this stuff. Since feel is different for everyone, you kind of have to experiment with it and then check to see if the picture changes or not. Erik provided a bunch of good feel options in the OP, so I was just adding one or two for the community, like @newtogolf did.

*I know Colin Montgomery said to swing "through" the ball, not "at it," but in this case, I think the situations are different as, well, both are really just feelings anyway, and not 100% real.

Just noticed @mvmac replied. Agreed. Both can work.

Thanks.

Quick terminology, pitch means that the right arm is externally rotated, Hogan on the left while Jack has a punch elbow. Obviously both can work.

Would this video of Stephan be an example of getting the right elbow in a pitch position?

[iacas]

So if your elbow is "trailing more behind", there are still ways to achieve all keys and play well?

Jim Furyk has all five keys.

[mvmac]

I always noticed this. How does he NOT flip?

He opens up more than most players. Notice how open the hips are at A6 in that pic with him in the orange shirt, most player look like that at A7. You can also have the elbow in punch and go with more hip slide, Charlie Wi kind of pattern.

Would this video of Stephan be an example of getting the right elbow in a pitch position?

Yeah that would be more pitch.

[nevets88]

He opens up more than most players. Notice how open the hips are at A6 in that pic with him in the orange shirt, most player look like that at A7. You can also have the elbow in punch and go with more hip slide, Charlie Wi kind of pattern.

How does he not go OTT? More right shoulder down/secondary axis tilt?

[mvmac]

How does he not go OTT? More right shoulder down/secondary axis tilt?

Yeah he's still got Key #2 and he's rotating on a tilted angle (Key #1).

[mvmac]

What did Jack's look like at A5 and A6 though?  Furyk does this too, but his right elbow comes in hard from A4 to A6.

Mid iron on the left. Driver on the right

A5. Close to level on the left, right elbow is slightly lower.

A6

[heshy]

Hi Rick I was going to ask a question I saw tHe video on YouTube tHat you and Dave witH you. On wHen you Had a piece of velcro on your jacket and you were talking about How far back tHe The righT elbow should go well I have someThing wrong wiTh my shoulder and when I Take The club back iT's an involunTary move on my parT ThaT my elbow goes all The way back The way u did when you were showing how To use The velcro any ideas of how we can play from There

[Hammer 4]

Hi Rick I was going to ask a question I saw tHe video on YouTube tHat you and Dave witH you. On wHen you Had a piece of velcro on your jacket and you were talking about How far back tHe

The righT elbow should go well I have someThing wrong wiTh my shoulder and when I Take The club back iT's an involunTary move on my parT ThaT my elbow goes all The way back The way u

did when you were showing how To use The velcro any ideas of how we can play from There

Is there a problem with your Shift key..???

[heshy]

Its called being legally blind.....But thankyou so mUCh for your caring

[iacas]

Hi Rick I was going to ask a question I saw tHe video on YouTube tHat you and Dave witH you. On wHen you Had a piece of velcro on your jacket and you were talking about How far back tHe

The righT elbow should go well I have someThing wrong wiTh my shoulder and when I Take The club back iT's an involunTary move on my parT ThaT my elbow goes all The way back The way u

did when you were showing how To use The velcro any ideas of how we can play from There

Are you referring to this video?

You can play golf from there, it's just a bit more difficult. And the odd thing is, you can go two ways…

1. Keep sliding forward forever, and swing out at the ball as much as you can, and play pushes or balls that draw.
2. Let the elbow work around your body during the downswing and play some version of a pull.

I don't know that it's involuntary. Your elbow isn't stuck back there when you're just standing there. If you lack external rotation of the shoulder joint, I could see the right elbow wanting to go around behind you a bit more, with the right hand staying on top a bit more during the backswing (in which case you almost have to go the route of #2 above).

[nevets88]

Are you referring to this video? You can play golf from there, it's just a bit more difficult. And the odd thing is, you can go two ways… [LIST=1] [*] Keep sliding forward forever, and swing out at the ball as much as you can, and play pushes or balls that draw. [*] Let the elbow work around your body during the downswing and play some version of a pull. [/LIST] I don't know that it's involuntary. Your elbow isn't stuck back there when you're just standing there. If you lack external rotation of the shoulder joint, I could see the right elbow wanting to go around behind you a bit more, with the right hand staying on top a bit more during the backswing (in which case you almost have to go the route of #2 above).

What is external/internal rotation? Inside/outside swing plane?

[heshy]

Thankyou yes that was the video.. You mentioned SHOuldet rotation.....yes possibly could be...thank you for your response