My Swing (Beachcomber)

[Beachcomber]

I shot a 74 on a Sunday with a differential of 1.3.  That should help my handicap... I'm very interested to see where I'm at tomorrow when my GHIN is updated.  I'm close to breaking the 4.0 barrier.  I'll post an update tomorrow, and update my swing thread as I have been tweaking a few things on my downswing since my last video.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

James did an Evolvr video for me... I went to the range.  Good things happened.  I also played a round with my Father this past weekend, and shot a 72 on a par 70.  Bogeyed the last freaking hole from 135 out in the center of the fairway.  And missed a lot of makeable birdies.  Ugggh.

PS... I'm not posting another swing in this thread until I shoot par or better.

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I shot a 74 on a Sunday with a differential of 1.3.  That should help my handicap... I'm very interested to see where I'm at tomorrow when my GHIN is updated.  I'm close to breaking the 4.0 barrier.  I'll post an update tomorrow, and update my swing thread as I have been tweaking a few things on my downswing since my last video.

That's awesome!  Well done, sir.  Which course did you play?  I didn't know we had any par 74's around here.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

That's awesome!  Well done, sir.  Which course did you play?  I didn't know we had any par 74's around here.

Smart (__)x(__)!! Hey, I was happy with a 74 at Glen Ivy from the tips.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Smart (__)x(__)!!   Hey, I was happy with a 74 at Glen Ivy from the tips.

Haha!  Just messing with you.  You should be happy with that!  Heck, the way I'm playing lately, I'd be happy with an 84!

[Beachcomber]

Making progress...  Personally this is the best I've seen my swing.  Still far from perfect, but a lot better than it was.

[Beachcomber]

Well, my handicap finally dropped below a 4.  Still lots of work left in the final 60 days of the year.  Hopefully I can get it lower.

Looking at my most recent stats... I finally got my GIR to 60%.  Would like to see it reach 65% or higher.  I've got work to do with my Scrambling %...   That is my weakest part of my game.  That and my putting.  Both will improve as I begin to practice those facets more.  But I still need to improve my pattern.

[jd924]

Really nice swing man keep up the improvements. Something that I have always wondered when it comes to the backswing especially p2. I am currently working with evolvr so I'm sure I'll eventually come to it but how do you and almost every pro nail p2 every time where it looks like the shaft is going straight up. I'm on plane but I can't get the shaft where it is looking like it goes straight up. I hope this makes some kind of sense and you are not left totally with a wtf impression.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by jd924

Really nice swing man keep up the improvements. Something that I have always wondered when it comes to the backswing especially p2. I am currently working with evolvr so I'm sure I'll eventually come to it but how do you and almost every pro nail p2 every time where it looks like the shaft is going straight up. I'm on plane but I can't get the shaft where it is looking like it goes straight up. I hope this makes some kind of sense and you are not left totally with a wtf impression.

Yeah, he does have a nice swing ... and super consistent too.  I am envious.

About your question ... when you say the "shaft is going straight up at P2(A2)," are you referring to the clubface?  If so, per Evolvr guys (and specifically Erik) it's not something that you you necessarily need to worry about.

See my thread and this post specifically: http://thesandtrap.com/t/60622/my-swing-golfingdad/0_30#post_750411

Edit:  Also check out Mike's comments here: http://thesandtrap.com/t/63035/why-was-this-a-push-slice/0_30#post_782799

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by jd924

Really nice swing man keep up the improvements. Something that I have always wondered when it comes to the backswing especially p2. I am currently working with evolvr so I'm sure I'll eventually come to it but how do you and almost every pro nail p2 every time where it looks like the shaft is going straight up. I'm on plane but I can't get the shaft where it is looking like it goes straight up. I hope this makes some kind of sense and you are not left totally with a wtf impression.

First, thanks for the comments.  I appreciate the kind words... My swing is far from perfect, but it is improving and I'm using Evolvr too.  Hope you are finding it as useful as I have? Mike, James, Erik, Dave and the others at Golf Evolution are good solid instructors.  And the guys that I have met from Golf Evolution, are even better people.

Regarding P2 (or A2)... It is pretty easy to hit A2 for me now... But it wasn't until I fully understood the some of the basic bio-mechanics, and checkpoints to look for to ensure I was hitting the proper positions and alignments.

The first thing I found awhile back was a good description of what a single plane backswing was.  Josh Zander is a great instructor - and someone that I like to watch his videos because he does a solid job of describing what he is doing.  Excellent communicator.

Now, the thing I modified - or didn't follow Josh Zanders instruction on was the placement of that right elbow.  In working with Evolvr, SnT and 5SK instruction.... I've found that it is better to have a one plane backswing, but keep your right elbow close to your side.  Formally, Grant Waite and Mike (mvmac) have told me to try and keep my elbow close to my side, not letting it go beyond 4 to 6" max from the side.  This is important as it ensures my arms are able to come back down on plane through impact, and my right elbow doesn't travel behind me and cause issues (if you go back through this entire thread you will see video instruction on this topic).

Once I started to understand what a one plane backswing is, was I only able to realize how simple the back swing really is in terms of what your shoulders and arms do... One that makes it very easy to hit A2.

The challenge then became how do I consistently hit A3 and A4.  I can do A3 and A4 proficiently by focusing and studying the wrist conditions that were required to hit these positions.  I think this is the mystery that many golfers miss, when they see a professionals swing the club.  They don't understand the subtle movements that are required to square the club at A2, and get it on plane at A3, A4 to A5, etc..

These 'mysteries' coupled with the lack of external rotation in my right shoulder (rotator cuff inflexibility or lack of strength) was what held my game from quicker progression.

Look at Jason Dufner at A2.  For me, to get to A2 and beyond, all I think about is the following:

(1.) My left shoulder needs to ultimately move down under my chin.  (I know I've reached the top of my back swing when my shoulder is under my chin)

(2.) I keep a rigid and straight left arm by maintaining firm pressure points (1 through 4).

If you watch my swing video (post #239), you will see at the 0:50 to 0:59 clip that I make a few pre-shot rehearsal moves.  This is a feel that I'm currently working on to really hit A5+... But it ultimately helps me even with my takeaway as I can feel the load of my left wrist required to go from A2 to A3+ - and ensures my power accumulator #2 - my left wrist cock is correctly loaded at A5 (to create lag)... Basically I'm bringing the club up and in - and down and out.  And my shaft is on plane.

My biggest issue in the backswing are a few things...

(1.) Over rotation of the upper torso - letting the arms travel too far back gets my right elbow stuck on my side.... Which forces my right leg to collapse and move toward the target in order to get low enough to hit the ball.

(2.) My wrist condition at A4 is off - something I still need help with - as my face is often closed (possibly a grip issue still)

[jd924]

Wow thanks for the replies. Golfing dad that is not what I mean, Beachcomber illustrates what I was thinking about. I've seen that video a bunch btw haha. Anyways what I tend to do is bring my hands in a bit more than most. A little under plane too sometimes. The best way I can describe it to you is Charlie Wi's swing and how he brings further inside and isn't like Dufners swing at a2. [VIDEO]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qqudpu1juxo[/VIDEO] I still square it up due to having my hands in front of my body and the club is lined up with the hands. My question does it matter if ur a2 is a Jason Dufner sequence or Charlie wi? As long as you line it up at impact right? Thanks for the replies

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by jd924

Wow thanks for the replies. Golfing dad that is not what I mean, Beachcomber illustrates what I was thinking about. I've seen that video a bunch btw haha. Anyways what I tend to do is bring my hands in a bit more than most. A little under plane too sometimes. The best way I can describe it to you is Charlie Wi's swing and how he brings further inside and isn't like Dufners swing at a2.I still square it up due to having my hands in front of my body and the club is lined up with the hands. My question does it matter if ur a2 is a Jason Dufner sequence or Charlie wi? As long as you line it up at impact right? Thanks for the replies

OK, thanks for clarifying.  I've learned from following along Beach's thread that I am nowhere near as technical as a lot of others so I sometimes am unable to keep up (especially with the terminology).  Lemme ask you guys this so I can try and learn this stuff:  Is the difference between Wi and Dufner that you are talking about the fact that Dufner's club is pointing directly at the camera and Wi's is pointing slightly to the left of the camera?  If so, I feel like I've read other things on here (also from Erik) about "deep hands" that look similar to Wi.

[jd924]

What I believe the difference is that Wi just bring his hands in more from the get go. Both have deep hands and really good swings. Jason however lets the shaft get parallel before bringing it is to the back of his backswing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by jd924

Wow thanks for the replies. Golfing dad that is not what I mean, Beachcomber illustrates what I was thinking about. I've seen that video a bunch btw haha. Anyways what I tend to do is bring my hands in a bit more than most. A little under plane too sometimes. The best way I can describe it to you is Charlie Wi's swing and how he brings further inside and isn't like Dufners swing at a2.I still square it up due to having my hands in front of my body and the club is lined up with the hands. My question does it matter if ur a2 is a Jason Dufner sequence or Charlie wi? As long as you line it up at impact right? Thanks for the replies

Please note, I'm an amateur, so the things I do (or say) are probably not textbook, but they work for me.  And I'm still experimenting trying to find the best solution that works for my game.  I've found that if I add horizontal rotation of my left forearm at start-up, it helps me load up my power accumulator #2 (left wrist hinge), and more importantly get my club square at impact.  When I do this - I hit a penetrating flight flight.

So again, my goal is to maximize power accumulator # 2 at A5+++ down into impact.  I stress this, because I want you to see why I do it in the first place.

So now, going back and looking at the video of Charlie Wie's swing you linked, versus my own... You will notice we have much different backswings. Particularlly if you focus on the clubface.  You will see where there is the most variance between the two swings.

For instance, I roll of my left forearm during start-up (which is what I called a horizontal wrist condition in my video below) where it doesn't look like Charlie Wie does this at all?  I could be wrong, but this is why I believe if you focus on the clubface from A1 to A3 in particular, this is where you will find a much different look from my swing versus a guy like Charlie.

Here is a quickie video I just made sitting here in my office.  I try to explain (probably did a job of explaining) what I do with my left wrist/forearm in the golf swing.  And how it helps me with PA#2... I roll the left forearm horizontally 90-degrees to assist with getting the club shaft parallel to my target line, and butt end of the grip facing the target.  When I do this at start-up, I have a much better chance of getting into a position like the photo of Dana (Power Accumulator #2 photo with red text).  This helps me increase PA#2 and really helps me strike the ball with force.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by jd924

What I believe the difference is that Wi just bring his hands in more from the get go. Both have deep hands and really good swings. Jason however lets the shaft get parallel before bringing it is to the back of his backswing. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

When you don't horizontally roll your left forearm... I think in order to take the club back - you have to naturally have deeper hands?  Again, I think the big difference is my rotation of the left forearm/wrist.... Going from a vertical condition at address... To a horizontal.  And Charlie's is more of a fixed vertical condition.

[mvmac]

Just wanted to share this video of what Charlie is trying to do now.  I'll comment much more on this thread tonight.

Please don't share this video, it's unlisted

[iacas]

Also, don't use that video of Charlie in the black hat and white long-sleeved shirt as an example of good. That's from a stretch of time when Charlie was struggling. Couple of issues with it.

[jd924]

Please note, I'm an amateur, so the things I do (or say) are probably not textbook, but they work for me.  And I'm still experimenting trying to find the best solution that works for my game.  I've found that if I add horizontal rotation of my left forearm at start-up, it helps me load up my power accumulator #2 (left wrist hinge), and more importantly get my club square at impact.  When I do this - I hit the with penetrating ball ball flight. So again, my goal is to maximize power accumulator # 2 at A5+++ down into impact.  I stress this, because I want you to see why I do it in the first place. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/62494/] [/URL] So now, going back and looking at the video of Charlie Wie's swing you linked, versus my own... You will notice we have much different backswings. Particularlly if you focus on the clubface.  You will see where there is the most variance between the two swings.   For instance, I roll of my left forearm during start-up (which is what I called a horizonatl wrist condition in my video below) where it doesn't look like Charlie Wie does this at all?  I could be wrong, but this is why I believe if you focus on the clubface from A1 to A3 in particular, this is where you will find a much different look from my swing versus a guy like Charlie. Here is a quickie video I just made sitting here in my office.  I try to explain (probably did a :poo:  job of explaining) what I do with my left wrist/forearm in the golf swing.  And how it helps me with PA#2... I roll the left forearm horizontally 90-degrees to assist with getting the club shaft parallel to my target line, and butt end of the grip facing the target.  When I do this at start-up, I have a much better chance of getting into a position like the photo of Dana (Power Accumulator #2 photo with red text).  This helps me increase PA#2 and really helps me strike the ball with force.

Great stuff man you made it perfectly clear. Question did evolvr teach you this method? Also when do you start lifting your arms? You roll the wrist then lift and cock the wrists? Or is it a roll and lifting of the arms? I'll have to play around with it once I get an opportunity. Appreciate vid really didn't have to do that.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by jd924

Great stuff man you made it perfectly clear. Question did evolvr teach you this method?

The rolling of the left forearm is something I picked up on when I was doing drills just trying to get a square clubface at A2... Then as I learned more and more about the golf swing from TGM, SnT, 5SK, etc... etc... Did I learn about PA#2.  And as I sought out more and more information, did I begin to see that PA#2 was a magical move that I had to incorporate into my swing.  When I saw Dana's video - a light bulb turned on in my brain... And I looked at how the back of his left palm was facing the camera at or near the right thigh - while maximizing PA#2.  I knew from my previous work on squaring the club at A2... The trick for me was that left forearm roll.  So I just hold that feel from A2... All the way through impact.  And I do that sanity check in my swing video... 0:50 to 0:59 seconds to ensure my wrist condition and rear of my left palm is facing the camera in a caddy view.

Originally Posted by jd924

Also when do you start lifting your arms? You roll the wrist then lift and cock the wrists? Or is it a roll and lifting of the arms?

I don't even think about lifting my arms really.  My main focus is on my left shoulder and keeping my left arm straight

1.) My left shoulder turning under my chin.

2.) Keeping my left arm dead straight - by pulling it back with my right forearm takeaway.

Once my left shoulder has reached the point where it is under my chin... And my right forearm/grip (Pressure points 1, 2 and 3) has pulled my left arm taught and tried to keep my right elbow to my side.... Do I know I'm done with the backswing.  Then it is just pulling the arms down - firing that grip through impact.

I'll re-film a quick demo with a golf club and maybe that will help?