My Swing (Beachcomber)

[JetFan1983]

So lemme just see if I'm following you right: You think it was because you were excessively feeling dorsiflexion in the right wrist that caused the closed clubface -- not because you were feeling palmar flexion in the left wrist? Yes?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

So lemme just see if I'm following you right: You think it was because you were excessively feeling dorsiflexion in the right wrist that caused the closed clubface -- not because you were feeling palmar flexion in the left wrist? Yes?

Bingo.  The right hand supports the weight of the club (it is behind / lower than the left).... And I was letting it dorsiflex too much.  I never even realized how the right hand needed to support that load until I was watching my video tonight.

I always see instructors and instruction talking about how the left wrist flexes.  But not much talking about the right wrist.  My right wrist is over flexing - and not supporting the load.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I went to the range this afternoon... And it was slammed.  So I didn't get to take any Face-On or Posterior views... I guess that's what happens when it's Sunny and 60F in February?  Gets all the folks out banging balls?   Anyway... I usually film with a 6i.... But I have been absolutely mashing my 8i so I wanted to get it on camera to see if there was anything different about it?

Here is a swing (ball was hurt):

Well, after looking at the video in standard speed - and slow motion... My turning rates look pretty clean.  Much better than they were a year ago.  But here is what I'm stoked about....

This video - I don't know why - but I had an epiphany when watching it!  I noticed that my freaking RIGHT hand and wrist cock is what is causing my closed face at A4.  Not my grip.  Not my left wrist hinge.  I don't know why.... But I've never consider the right hand wrist was over flexing.  This is why my damn face is always closed at A4.  Basically - I need to get more rigid with that hand - and not just left it flop open where the open palm goes skyward at the top (back of palm facing down).

I need more of a "I swear to tell the truth" type of Oath right hand - NOT - the current waiter carrying a tray feel I had going.   I can't wait to take some new video of this... I finally - FINALLY know what the culprit is after all these months of taking video and analyzing my swing.  Wow... What a freaking relief.  I pumped!!!

People... This is why you need to film your swing.  Because eventually these type of glaring issues will pop out at you.

Love that you were able to figure that out on your own with video!  (I may have to look into an upgrade to my iPhone pretty soon!)  However, please forgive my ignorance at this potentially dumb question I have to ask ...

Why is it bad that your club face is closed at A4?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Love that you were able to figure that out on your own with video!  (I may have to look into an upgrade to my iPhone pretty soon!)  However, please forgive my ignorance at this potentially dumb question I have to ask ...

Why is it bad that your club face is closed at A4?

The problem with a closed face - for me is a few things....

1.) As the club lengthens - I have a problem getting Dynamic Loft - getting the ball to launch high.

a.) I read, maybe on here - or somewhere - (or someone told me lol) that Pros hit their 5i (off the deck) as high as they hit their Driver* - not me - I don't even really launch my Driver that high to begin with.

b.) The reason is that my face at impact is shut or closing, I have a forward shaft - so the club is delofted - and it just doesn't carry like I need it to.  This is why on long courses (6,800+) - I struggle to score.

c.) Example: Look at my 3W numbers on Trackman - see how low it flights (less than 25yds in height) - the closed clubface exashberates the issue.

2.) With my swing speed (low to mid 100's with a driver) - it becomes problematic.  The Pros can get away with a closed clubface - because they are swinging 10mph faster than me.  So subtle flaws like this aren't as big of a deal.  I mean, you have played golf with me.  I can play the game... But to get to where I want to be - with my swing speed - I need to launch the ball higher with my longer clubs.  So that I can get into scoring position on Par 5's.  Going over my goals with Dana and Mike - this was one of the areas Dana said I had to fix if I truly wanted to maximize my potential - with my current swing speed.  And I agree.  It's problematic for me - and always has been.  I just need to get more carry from my longer sticks.  Having more of a positive face at impact (squaring the clubface) will do that for me.  This is why the clubface at A4 is always a hot topic for me.  And I just never could figure out why I couldn't get it square until watching video tonight and literally - it slapped me in the face... Like 'DUDE!!  THERE IT IS!!'

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

The problem with a closed face - for me is a few things....

1.) As the club lengthens - I have a problem getting Dynamic Loft - getting the ball to launch high.

a.) I read, maybe on here - or somewhere - (or someone told me lol) that Pros hit their 5i (off the deck) as high as they hit their Driver* - not me - I don't even really launch my Driver that high to begin with.

b.) The reason is that my face at impact is shut or closing, I have a forward shaft - so the club is delofted - and it just doesn't carry like I need it to.  This is why on long courses (6,800+) - I struggle to score.

c.) Example: Look at my 3W numbers on Trackman - see how low it flights (less than 25yds in height) - the closed clubface exashberates the issue.

2.) With my swing speed (low to mid 100's with a driver) - it becomes problematic.  The Pros can get away with a closed clubface - because they are swinging 10mph faster than me.  So subtle flaws like this aren't as big of a deal.  I mean, you have played golf with me.  I can play the game... But to get to where I want to be - with my swing speed - I need to launch the ball higher with my longer clubs.  So that I can get into scoring position on Par 5's.  Going over my goals with Dana and Mike - this was one of the areas Dana said I had to fix if I truly wanted to maximize my potential - with my current swing speed.  And I agree.  It's problematic for me - and always has been.  I just need to get more carry from my longer sticks.  Having more of a positive face at impact (squaring the clubface) will do that for me.  This is why the clubface at A4 is always a hot topic for me.  And I just never could figure out why I couldn't get it square until watching video tonight and literally - it slapped me in the face... Like 'DUDE!!  THERE IT IS!!'

OK, that makes sense.  I was just thinking that A4 shouldn't really matter that much since, you know, you don't hit the ball at A4.  But what you're saying is that it stays closed through to impact.  I get it now, thanks for clarifying.

I can feel your pain because I have the same problem with my longer clubs too ... no height at all.  (Don't think it has anything to do with a closed clubface at A4, just know that a higher ballflight with a steeper landing angle would sure be nice, especially on those longer clubs :))

[JetFan1983]

That's an imporant realization to make, I think, because it sounds to me like this is a feel you can more naturally control. I feel like I discovered something similar recently where I began to use my right hand more to assist in cocking the club in the backswing. I never realized that I was so left hand dominant on the takeaway when it came to setting the wrists. Finding a feel that gets me to change the picture is truly a great moment.

[Beachcomber]

The following photo, is how I always looked at the bowed versus cupped wrist.   Like it was just the left wrist which was the culprit.  But tonight, looking at my video, I finally realized - which is silly that it took me this long to understand what was really going on... Is that it is actually the right wrist that is supporting the load during the transition.  As the right hand is behind the left - and the weight and energy from the backswing has to be absorbed by that right hand.  I was basically letting that right hand dorsiflex with no regard at all - and never realizing that it was actually overflexing... You have to support that load properly at the top to keep the club square.

This video from Yoda is something I've watched before... But not sure why it didn't resonate with me like it should have when dealing with the right wrist.  Watch from 2:30+....

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

You have to support that load properly at the top to keep the club square.

Which picture is the proper way?

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Which picture is the proper way?

You'll see bowed wrist (closed face) on some tour pros (picture on the left)... But ideally you'd have a square face at the top which is kind of in between, and not really represented in the two drawings.  The problem with a closed clubface is that as the club lengthens - its harder to flight (launch) the ball higher.  The Pros can get away with it because their swing speeds are so fast.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

You have to support that load properly at the top to keep the club square.

Which picture is the proper way?

Both. Or neither. It depends on what happens during the rest of the swing. Ben Hogan on the right. Dustin Johnson on the left. Or totally flat left wristed like a lot of great players. Although the example on the right hasn't really rolled his left forearm enough (hence the club pointing well right), but still. Couples and Tom Watson have the club pointed well right at the top, but I think that has to do with their flying right elbows. In terms of wrist angles, both are genius or problematic.

In Beach's case, the left one is bad news bears. I'm trying to get away from the left picture too, but boy is that a huge tip to give someone who flips the hell outta the club at impact and pushes all his shots weakly to the right. I used to be the guy in the right picture and I missed everything short and right. I felt more like the picture on the left and started hitting draws with a penetrating ball flight. So, I guess it can be a bit complicated. What Beach said above is key too.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

Here's the deal though: that's not particularly relevant. You can be as shut or open as you want at the top, and it's only ever a weak indicator of impact alignments. It's an indicator of grip position more than anything. PGA Tour pros have played and generated similar impact alignments and conditions from extremely shut to extremely open positions at the top. From arched and cupped wrists at the top.

Start at impact, and go from there. Swinging left will tend to produce a lower ball flight (pull-draws to straight-draws). Too much flying wedge will produce lower shots (probably not you here). Too much "grandpa finish" will produce lower shots - as the club fails to come out of its descent quickly enough.

And too little clubhead speed will produce lower shots. Please realize 30 yards is pretty damn high, and if you hit the ball 30 yards in the air, you're probably going to lose distance. Perhaps not with the driver, but with your irons, I'd almost wager on it.

100 MPH clubhead speed and a 3W that flies 226 seems about right. If you weren't hitting a range ball there, it'd spin a little more, carry a little farther, get a little higher, and not roll quite so much with a steeper landing angle.

That's not to say you can't gain a little with investigating a cause in your swing, but there's a limit to what you can do with 100 MPH clubhead speed, and at the end of the day, that's a big part of your limiting factors right now.

Shoot a good FO and DL video, in tandem, with your driver and 3W. Post them here. Take care to choose a target that's on your stance line so you don't tell us you push-drew a ball that actually slightly pull-drew.

[Beachcomber]

Sigh, I wish I could get out and play today.  It is absolutely freaking amazing weather right now in Newport... 70's and sunny.  With a slight breeze.  It feels like air conditioning it is so nice out. But unfortunately my life has been crazy the last month+.  Thus why I haven't updated my swing thread.

Looking back, I haven't uploaded a swing to Youtube since February 9th!  BLllllllaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh.... Trust me, it's not because I haven't wanted to practice or continue on my journey... But my life has been insane this past two months.

Wisdom teeth removed on Valentines day... That put me down for two weeks - it was rough.  Like living hell with having three impacted teeth removed... And I did it without going under because I've had issues from a previous surgery and was afraid to go under.

Then once I fully recovered from my wisdom teeth surgery, the practice facility that I use here in Socal shutdown for refurbishments/upgrades.  Literally its been closed for a month... So I haven't worked on my swing at all... I know, I know... I could go to another range nearby.  But part of it was the range I use which is a stone throw away from my house closed for repairs, and part is I'm lazy?

Then comes... Work!  Why, WHY!?  Come on... Don't you know I have better things to do like - golf!?  Noooooo.  I gotta do a proposal, or I gotta fly into meet a client.  Boohooo!!

Yeah, the travel schedule has gotten crazy, and then the next thing I know I got zapped with the freaking flu which put me down for a week on top of the insane work schedule. So here I am... Looking out the window as I type this feeling like I haven't played golf in at least two months...

But I just looked at Golfshot, and I've actually played six times since 2-18 (I laugh, I actually played in a tournament days after I got my teeth pulled - not a great idea - but it's amazing how you can play with little worries when on Vicodin! ).

Scores: 75/75/80/79/84/78...........  Not great, not terrible.  I laugh - or maybe I should cry ( ) as the 78 from two weeks ago was a round where I missed at least 6 putts from inside 6ft.  Ridiculous how many freaking putts I miss from close range these days.  But I guess I can't complain too much because honestly, I'm just not doing anything to get better right now at golf.  Not a damn thing.

4-29-13.... I just marked the calendar.  This is the day that I'm going to start going to the range/course again daily - and get back at it.  I do have a two day tournament on 4/27 & 4/28.  With a practice round scheduled for 4/13.  So maybe I'll find a way to get out and hit some balls a little more frequently?  But I doubt it because I'm moving on 4/25.

Ugggh... Life.  Can you just slow down so I can play this game I love without all the other worries???

[bplewis24]

Don't take it so hard buddy.  You should cheer up knowing that by the time you start practicing again, we'll all be better than you.

[bomberman]

Your hips. Like many other members has said. Hosel because your hips are trusting out hence that 1 inch can make alot of difference in your swing plane.

You want to play that swing it's fine/powerful. Just follow sergio garcia!~ dont try to change for the sake of it.

See his swing and realize he compressess ALOT squeeze his arms and hips in then trust it out with full power!

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by bomberman

Your hips. Like many other members has said. Hosel because your hips are trusting out hence that 1 inch can make alot of difference in your swing plane.

You want to play that swing it's fine/powerful. Just follow sergio garcia!~ dont try to change for the sake of it.

See his swing and realize he compressess ALOT squeeze his arms and hips in then trust it out with full power!

You realize "thrust" is spelled with an "h"?

[jamo]

Your hips. Like many other members has said. Hosel because your hips are trusting out hence that 1 inch can make alot of difference in your swing plane. You want to play that swing it's fine/powerful. Just follow sergio garcia!~ dont try to change for the sake of it. See his swing and realize he compressess ALOT squeeze his arms and hips in then trust it out with full power!

Why do people stay stuff like this? If we could all cast a spell and immediately swing and play like Sergio Garcia, don't you think we'd do that? He's changing his swing because he isn't satisfied with the results currently. It's not change for the sake of change, it's change for the sake of you have to change or else you're never going to get any better.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by jamo

Why do people stay stuff like this? If we could all cast a spell and immediately swing and play like Sergio Garcia, don't you think we'd do that? He's changing his swing because he isn't satisfied with the results currently.

It's not change for the sake of change, it's change for the sake of you have to change or else you're never going to get any better.

I once modeled my swing after Sergio.  Sure, the +handicap and 20+ yards of added distance were great, but I found myself hitting out of trees and lakes too often.  When I ended up throwing my shoe once, that was the last straw.  Went back to my current swing.

[Beachcomber]

Originally Posted by bomberman

Your hips. Like many other members has said. Hosel because your hips are trusting out hence that 1 inch can make alot of difference in your swing plane.

You want to play that swing it's fine/powerful. Just follow sergio garcia!~ dont try to change for the sake of it.

See his swing and realize he compressess ALOT squeeze his arms and hips in then trust it out with full power!

So what you are saying is... Just keep on humping?