Who's Meltdown was worse, Stanley or Levin?

[mvmac]

Last week at the TPC Scottsdale, Spencer Levin had a 6 shot lead in the final round and Kyle Stanley led by 3 shots on with one hole to play at Torrey Pines the week before.  Both didn't win these tournaments due to some poor course management, bad shots and the eventual winner playing great golf.

Which loss one was worse?

I'm gonna go with Stanley.  3 shot lead and the last hole is a par 5.  Complete mental mistake to not hit a fairway wood for his second shot.  The only thing he couldn't do was hit his 3rd shot into the water.  Second shot into the water would have been ok but more likely he would have hit a 3 wood into the grand stands (think he had 235 yards from the fairway) and gotten a drop.  Laying up made no sense.  Spencer's "collapse" was throughout his round, but it was a big lead.

[lumpuckeroo]

I too would go with Stanley.  To give up 3 shots on one hole seems a lot worse than 7 shots over the course of 18.

[Shorty]

Stanley didn't have a meltdown.Look at the great clutch putts he was making on the back 9. One after another.

As Faldo said, it was pretty much a perfect storm of bad luck on the 18th. His 3rd shot looked as if it was going to be about 8 feet from the hole, but it had excessive spin and hit the wrong spot. He had a bit of bad luck.

You could see after the 9th hole that Levin was choking like crazy.

If you were going to use the term, you'd apply it to Levin, no way Stanley.

[RPMPIRE]

I would have to go with Spencer Levin. Unlike Kyle Stanley, who at least redeemed himself a week after a meltdown, Spencer Levin has been in a position to win more than a few times. He was in a playoff in the Mayakoba Classic last year and again came up short. Levin has more experience in these down-to-wire situations and with a 6-shot lead, I would have expected him to learn from those past experiences. He had a 6-shot lead!!!!

[iacas]

Stanley, by far.

Also, I added a poll.

[bunkerputt]

Levin.  Stanley had a little course management blunder combined with some bad luck on 18.  Then he bounced back and won.  I'd hardly call that a "meltdown" which implies some sort of emotional collapse.  This is all speculation of course, as none of us really know what's going on inside someone's head.  From a spectators perspective, it's much easier to stomach the quick jolt to the gut that Stanley provided versus watching a fidgety little chain smoker try to keep the wheels on his game for 18 holes.

[RPMPIRE]

Give credit to Kyle Stanley for pulling a McIlroy but just a week after his meltdown. I have yet to see Levin recover with a win and he's had more opportunitues than Stanley did.

[x129]

Stanley by far. If you took 20 scratch golfer on this site and gave them a 3 stroke lead, a couple of the would hold on for the win. GIve them a 6 stroke lead and 18 to play and I wouldn't expect any to make it.

The interesting part to me is how Stanley probably got locked into a mental thing of thinking this was a normal hole that he wanted to play safely. If he needed a par, his plays made sense. He didn't make the adjustment for having 3 shots to play with. Laying up is questionable but the shot he took after laying up is just as bad.  Put that shot pretty much anywhere on the other side of the water and he wins so there isn't much need to get the ball close to the hole. Drop it 60 feet away and 3 putt for the win.

Originally Posted by mvmac

Last week at the TPC Scottsdale, Spencer Levin had a 6 shot lead in the final round and Kyle Stanley led by 3 shots on with one hole to play at Torrey Pines the week before.  Both didn't win these tournaments due to some poor course management, bad shots and the eventual winner playing great golf.

Which loss one was worse?

I'm gonna go with Stanley.  3 shot lead and the last hole is a par 5.  Complete mental mistake to not hit a fairway wood for his second shot.  The only thing he couldn't do was hit his 3rd shot into the water.  Second shot into the water would have been ok but more likely he would have hit a 3 wood into the grand stands (think he had 235 yards from the fairway) and gotten a drop.  Laying up made no sense.  Spencer's "collapse" was throughout his round, but it was a big lead.

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by mvmac

I'm gonna go with Stanley.  3 shot lead and the last hole is a par 5.  Complete mental mistake to not hit a fairway wood for his second shot.  The only thing he couldn't do was hit his 3rd shot into the water.  Second shot into the water would have been ok but more likely he would have hit a 3 wood into the grand stands (think he had 235 yards from the fairway) and gotten a drop.  Laying up made no sense.  Spencer's "collapse" was throughout his round, but it was a big lead.

I agree it was Stanley because, as someone else pointed out, losing 3 shots on one hole is worse than 7 over 18. Not sure if I agree with the part I bolded though.  Second shot into the water might not have been ok because then after taking a drop he still has to hit a spinny feel shot to the green similar to the one he actually played, with the added burden of laying 3 instead of 2.   Or, if the second shot goes long and/or into the grandstands then he's chipping downhill across the length of the green, which brings water into play again if he goes long. Yes, in that case the smart play would be to chip just onto the back of the green and have 4 putts to win it, but he had the same opportunity to hit his 3rd shot to the back of the green and he didn't do it then. I think that was his biggest mental mistake.

Originally Posted by x129

Stanley by far. If you took 20 scratch golfer on this site and gave them a 3 stroke lead, a couple of the would hold on for the win. GIve them a 6 stroke lead and 18 to play and I wouldn't expect any to make it.

The interesting part to me is how Stanley probably got locked into a mental thing of thinking this was a normal hole that he wanted to play safely. If he needed a par, his plays made sense. He didn't make the adjustment for having 3 shots to play with. Laying up is questionable but the shot he took after laying up is just as bad.  Put that shot pretty much anywhere on the other side of the water and he wins so there isn't much need to get the ball close to the hole. Drop it 60 feet away and 3 putt for the win.

Heh, you beat me to it - I need to type faster... (And note a 4-putt would've won it.)

And I actually think 10% of *mid*-handicappers could've held on to win it. (It would be higher except I'm allowing for the element of pressure.)

[iPutt]

I voted for Stanley, but after reading the title again, I would say that as a "meltdown" it would have to be Levin. Levin just started leaking oil on the back 9 and it just kept getting worse and worse. However, if you had to choose which loss was worse, I think it's Stanley hands down. If you put me (as a 19 handicap) lying in the center of the fairway lying 2 and give me 5 shots to get in the hole, I could do that 98/100 times (obviously pressure played a role. Worse loss, Stanley. Worse "meltdown," Levin.

[zipazoid]

Definitely Levin. Stanley had a bad break on 18...if that ball doesn't do that last roll into the pond he wins. That's hardly a 'meltdown'.

[GJBenn85]

Stanley's was more "painful" but I think Levin had more of an uncontrolled meltdown.  You could see Levin's meltdown in his expressions and performance and the fact he started smoking (watched him on other days of the tournament and do not recall him smoking).  Stanley just had a terrible round of luck on the last hole but was able to redeem himself at the Waste Management.

[xxsoultonesxx]

Originally Posted by Shorty

Stanley didn't have a meltdown.Look at the great clutch putts he was making on the back 9. One after another.

As Faldo said, it was pretty much a perfect storm of bad luck on the 18th. His 3rd shot looked as if it was going to be about 8 feet from the hole, but it had excessive spin and hit the wrong spot. He had a bit of bad luck.

You could see after the 9th hole that Levin was choking like crazy.

If you were going to use the term, you'd apply it to Levin, no way Stanley.

This for sure. A "meltdown" is not what happened to Stanley...he played 71 awesome holes, and had shitty luck on 72... Levin was more of a meltdown situation, he was getting noticeably shaken  on Sunday. Stanley was a cool character through the whole thing.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by xxsoultonesxx

he played 71 awesome holes, and had shitty luck on 72...

Why people persist in seeing that as luck is beyond me.

He played a shot - with spin - to a small part of a MASSIVE green when he could have just as easily played a shot with less spin or, heaven forbid, hit the other 90% of the green way to the right. Oh, and the small part of the green had a big shelf/tier on it. Oh, and a shaved bank leading to water right in front. Then he three-putted. TWICE .

Where exactly is the shitty luck?

That was one brain fart after another. And his win the next week is irrelevant.

[TourSpoon]

The worse loss goes to Stanely, but Levin gets the meltdown award by far as he wore it on his sleeve the whole day. I think he was 2 fisting the smokes for the last few holes and was visibly shaken by the pressure.

[Harmonious]

Erik's exactly right on this. He just needed to get down IN 5 from less than 100 yards to win.   It should have been no secret that the green slopes back to the water.  They've played the freaking hole at least twice already that week. Where was the caddy? He should have been reminding Stanley: "Hey, no need to get cute here. Take the water out of play.  Just put it in the center of the green, and we win." Unless Stanley was channeling Tin Cup, it's the caddy's job to bring reality into the player's thoughts.

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

Erik's exactly right on this. He just needed to get down IN 5 from less than 100 yards to win.   It should have been no secret that the green slopes back to the water.  They've played the freaking hole at least twice already that week. Where was the caddy? He should have been reminding Stanley: "Hey, no need to get cute here. Take the water out of play.  Just put it in the center of the green, and we win." Unless Stanley was channeling Tin Cup, it's the caddy's job to bring reality into the player's thoughts.

Funny, because I was thinking Tin Cup once it rolled off the green, even if Roy McAvoy's disaster was with a 3 wood.

[x129]

Levin smokes constantly so I wouldn't take that as much of sign unless you counted him smoking 2x as much.

You would probably have to define what you mean by meltdown. I wouldn't say Stanley crumbled under pressure before the water shot. I am not sure if pressure really affect his shot selection. I have a feeling he just didn't think about the situation enough. After that the pressure may have gotten to him. Levin in the interviews pretty much say the pressure got to him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJBenn85

Stanley's was more "painful" but I think Levin had more of an uncontrolled meltdown.  You could see Levin's meltdown in his expressions and performance and the fact he started smoking (watched him on other days of the tournament and do not recall him smoking).  Stanley just had a terrible round of luck on the last hole but was able to redeem himself at the Waste Management.