Tiger Wants to Ban the Long Putter

[jhwmusic]

Nope, it's just you. I couldn't resist... It's like being the last person to clap. I'm done. Phew!

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by club ho

Quote:

Originally Posted by newtogolf

You must not have read the whole thread, it's already been suggested by others that share your opinion.

Newtogolf: Apologies if I repeated others opinions but I was simply giving my opinion on the subject. Yes you are right I am not about to wade through 19 pages of posts just to be sure I didn't repeat someone else's opinion. I will continue to make observations as I see fit.

Kudos - it's actually easier for the regulars to ignore a rehash by a new poster.

[club ho]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Kudos - it's actually easier for the regulars to ignore a rehash by a new poster.

GETTING BACK TO THE SUBJECT! To play devils advocate  if the rules committee decides to ban a cub that has been accepted and used on the PGA for over 12 years what other rules should be reversed? Or should a sunset provision on banning accepted equipment be imposed? As I write this the square groove wedge rule comes to mind.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by club ho

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Kudos - it's actually easier for the regulars to ignore a rehash by a new poster.

GETTING BACK TO THE SUBJECT! To play devils advocate  if the rules committee decides to ban a cub that has been accepted and used on the PGA for over 12 years what other rules should be reversed? Or should a sunset provision on banning accepted equipment be imposed? As I write this the square groove wedge rule comes to mind.

I was attempting to support you, but now I wonder why.

[tim31x]

As a long putter user, I am against the ban. For several year I was a very good putter, playing myself down to a +1. After a few rough rounds the thoughts started to creep in my head, and eventually into my hands. I yipped for close to two year and eventually decided to leave the game. The only thing that has brought me back and kept me in golf is the long putter. Does it make me a better putter than I was on my game with the conventional putter? No, but it keeps me in the game and allows me to learn to love golf again.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by TheGeekGolfer

None of these 'defenses' in here hold up anywhere.  This entire thread is based on opinions.  The logic of "it's not illegal today, so it shouldn't be illegal" is just as valid as "I don't think it's the way a stroke should be made".

That is something I fundamentally disagree with to the point that there is no need for further discussion if we can't even agree that these two arguments are not even in the same stratosphere.  Claiming that anchoring fundamentally alters the stroke to the level that something should be done about it is up for debate and argument.  Suggesting that something isn't illegal and thus shouldn't be illegal is circular reasoning at best.

Brandon

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by tim31x

As a long putter user, I am against the ban. For several year I was a very good putter, playing myself down to a +1. After a few rough rounds the thoughts started to creep in my head, and eventually into my hands. I yipped for close to two year and eventually decided to leave the game. The only thing that has brought me back and kept me in golf is the long putter. Does it make me a better putter than I was on my game with the conventional putter? No, but it keeps me in the game and allows me to learn to love golf again.

Your anecdote can be taken as a contradiction to your conclusion statement.

Brandon

[photoballmarker]

Since, when can't you anchor any other club to your body if you want? If anchoring a club to your body is an advantage then do it. Golf like any other sport evolves with new techniques. Anchoring a putter is just a new technique. Just like the jump shot was to basketball. I guess you and Tiger Woods would want us to return to the two handed set shot in basketball also.

[newtogolf]

First let me say I'm glad you're back to playing golf and learning to love it.  I don't think the putter should be banned for non-pro's as we'd lose people like yourself from the game and that would go against everything the USGA is trying to do to increase participation.

That said, your story leads me to conclude that today, long putters do provide you an advantage over conventional length putters as without the ability to anchor the club you would not be able to post the scores you do.  I understand that compared to pre-yips you're not putting any better but as of today your putting with the long putter is far better than if you had you use a standard length putter.

The issue in my mind is what causes the yips and if that is something the USGA wants to allow pro golfers to compensate for by using a long putter and anchoring the club to their body, or would it create a precedent that would cause problems going forward for the USGA.  Depending on the decision, I can see someone argue that golfers with lower swing speeds should be able to use larger than 460cc heads to compensate for their lower swing speed or go back to using the old grooves.  In any case it's something they will have to deal soon with, as I read long / belly putter usage is now averaging about 25% in PGA tournaments and climbing.

Originally Posted by tim31x

As a long putter user, I am against the ban. For several year I was a very good putter, playing myself down to a +1. After a few rough rounds the thoughts started to creep in my head, and eventually into my hands. I yipped for close to two year and eventually decided to leave the game. The only thing that has brought me back and kept me in golf is the long putter. Does it make me a better putter than I was on my game with the conventional putter? No, but it keeps me in the game and allows me to learn to love golf again.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by photoballmarker

Since, when can't you anchor any other club to your body if you want? If anchoring a club to your body is an advantage then do it. Golf like any other sport evolves with new techniques. Anchoring a putter is just a new technique. Just like the jump shot was to basketball. I guess you and Tiger Woods would want us to return to the two handed set shot in basketball also.

And while we're at it, may I suggest the new technique of dribbling the ball with both hands.  I also think they should introduce the new technique of taking 5 steps after your last dribble.

Brandon

[handlez42]

i may have had a confusing opinion before but i think this weekends "bear trap" showed that you have to get to the green first. out of top 10 finishers at Honda or whatever....how many had long putterrs?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by handlez42

i may have had a confusing opinion before but i think this weekends "bear trap" showed that you have to get to the green first. out of top 10 finishers at Honda or whatever....how many had long putterrs?

What does that have to do with anything? I don't think popularity is a very good reason whether you're for or against them.

[behing19]

I say ban them in all regulated tournament and league play.  Maybe allow an exception for seniors since many started using them due to not being able to bend over nearly as we as they got older.  Regular tour players should not be able to anchor any club to their body.  The length, to me, doesn't create an issue, but the anchor point does.  I don't like them one bit and I think it's time to put a stop to them.

Benjamin Ehinger

[handlez42]

Originally Posted by iacas

What does that have to do with anything? I don't think popularity is a very good reason whether you're for or against them.

the title of the post is "tiger wants to ban the long putter"

i dont like the anchor part of it. thats it

by referring to the honda classic? top 5 finishers none of them use a long putter. so who is it really going to benefit?

its clear that last year it made a big impact but so far this year it hasnt and im convinced that it wont be all THAT big of a deal.

the belly putter has been around for sooo long...and why is it getting attention now? it debut more than 10 years ago when paul azinger won with it...if "anchoring" is in consideration for being illegal then simply put, the "belly putter" should be banned. what i dont get is if its length is an issue yet its been around for so long. and if its been around for THAT long, wouldnt you think the best in the world would be using it? and i mean a large majority...but they arent.

this is water under the bridge...either make the rule of anchoring your putter realistic which will drop the belly putter in general, or get over something that has been around much longer than since 2011

[iacas]

Originally Posted by handlez42

the title of the post is "tiger wants to ban the long putter"

i dont like the anchor part of it. thats it

Again, the top five finishers anywhere shouldn't be a basis FOR or AGAINST the rule, IMO. I think reasonable parties on both sides are willing to stipulate to that.

If the top five didn't include players who carried 15 clubs in the bag would you be okay with that? No, you wouldn't, and that's kind of the same thing here (except obviously that 15 clubs is illegal already).

[teamroper60]

I have read various reasons for why they should be banned, ranging from "it's not a proper stroke", to it's ugly, to it isn't in keeping with the traditions of the game and on to it's an advantage.

Of the reasons I listed, I believe the one with the least credence is about tradition.   I own the set of clubs my Grandfather played with.   The heads of the woods are persimmon.  If tradition is paramount, shouldn't the USGA also ban metal woods?   If not, why not?   Tradition would dictate that woods should be made of wood, as the name implies.  Yet I do not see a move afoot to require a return to persimmon.

The only definition I have seen of a "proper stroke" is that the club must be drawn back and swung forward to strike the ball.     I believe the back and forward motion is still required in order to use a long putter, so by definition, the method of use for long putters does meet the criteria of a "proper stroke".

The issue of advantage is a real slippery slope.   Does someone using a 460cc driver have an advantage over someone using a "traditional" persimmon driver?   I think so.   What about "game improvement" irons?   Should game improvement irons be allowed?  Do they not give an advantage (over using blades) to a less skilled player?  That set of clubs my Grandfather used were all hickory shafted.  Don't modern, graphite/flighted shafts give an advantage over hickory?  Now, I am not advocating that we go back to the 1930's (or beyond).  I am merely pointing out that there have been many technological advancements in golf clubs (not to mention golf balls) that have given us advantages which were not available to previous generations.   Most of us own clubs with at least some of those advancements.   So it really boils down to whether that advantage is obtained fairly or not.  Virtually every sport creates rules designed to keep the game fair. Since all of the advantages mentioned here (and including long putters) are legal for use by anyone that so chooses, they do not provide an unfair advantage and should that not be the real criteria?

The issue of ugliness is more ambiguous.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

So to me, it seems this argument is just another iteration of an age old problem, resistance to change.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by behing19

I say ban them in all regulated tournament and league play.  Maybe allow an exception for seniors since many started using them due to not being able to bend over nearly as we as they got older.  Regular tour players should not be able to anchor any club to their body.  The length, to me, doesn't create an issue, but the anchor point does.  I don't like them one bit and I think it's time to put a stop to them.

Benjamin Ehinger

My suggestion a few years ago was to ban them for the PGA/Nationwide Tours (etc) but allow them for the Champions Tour as well as amateur play.  Sounds like that won't happen though.

Brandon

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by teamroper60

The issue of ugliness is more ambiguous.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I could be friends with an ugly putter if I make putts with it. I guess this begs the question, do some golfers have Trophy Putters? You know, based on looks only even though they don't score often? (Yes, I already know the answer!)