Good Golf Posture (How to Address the Golf Ball)

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

When over done, your rounded spine will cause as many if not more problems than a straight spine.

Ok so for you there are alignment issues.  What other problems would this posture cause?  What would these players be able to do better if their spines were straighter?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

1. What's your proof that the rounded spine is more atheletic? "I contend"..................that's your opinion. In a lot of sports, you assume a ready position that includes a relatively straight spine; hence the atheltic position.

See above. We've given reasons. It's my opinion, backed by, among others... these three reasons off the top of my head:

1. More relaxed (less muscle tension)
2. Shoulders more in their impact positions (not retracted)
3. Able to view the ball out of the center of our eyes.

"Warming up" isn't relevant to the topic, so let's just ignore that you (or the other person) said anything about sore backs or "back issues." I don't feel I misread what you wrote - I will admit to misjudging the relevance (none) to the topic if it makes you feel better. :)

It's generally unwise to assume. I think I've established that I'm a credible instructor. You seem willing to take the word of anyone who puts themselves out there. Also, I don't know what in the hell I'm selling exactly, but I suppose that doesn't really matter. You've got your opinions and aren't budging. That's fine.

I'll let the rest of your post go without response, because it's late and I think we've been over it all already, but I will disagree with one part: given the choice between two players who are equidistant from "neutral," (the TW photos I've posted today are pretty close to neutral - slight rounding of the back), I'll take the one that's too round over the one that's too straight, for the three reasons listed above, and more.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Ok so for you there are alignment issues.  What other problems would this posture cause?  What would these players be able to do better if their spines were straighter?

There are different body types and the guy on the right is again, VERY TALL from the look of it. Unless he buys longer clubs of course he'll have to bend more somehow to get down to the ball.

I get it guys; you're instructors advocating a certain way of playing. You're offering information to the public which is great and I appreciate reading different philosophies. I choose to believe in the more traditional approach to the setup but not to the extreme.

Good luck in your ventures..............

[jamo]

There are different body types and the guy on the right is again, VERY TALL from the look of it.

Grant Waite? He's 6'1". So no, not "VERY TALL." [quote name="Pablo68" url="/t/56069/good-golf-posture/60_30#post_742475"]I choose to believe in the more traditional approach to the setup but not to the extreme. [/quote] Despite the fact that you've been given copious examples of "traditional" setups that contradict your own beliefs?

[Kapanda]

You guys like to beat a guy to the ground...

[sean_miller]

It's just nice to see Waite in long pants for a change, which reminds me, why don't we see his actual students' swings more often and less of his swings? It would be like ignoring Hunter Mahan, Justin Rose, or even Tiger Woods, and raving about how Sean Foley hits the ball.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by Kapanda

You guys like to beat a guy to the ground...

Scary isn't it? Especially considering the fact they're Moderators/Administrators here.

Typically Mods/Admins are charged with keeping the peace and allowing discussions to occur without it getting personal. Guess that's only the case if you choose to drink the Kool Aid they're serving. Very telling indeed...........

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

It's just nice to see Waite in long pants for a change, which reminds me, why don't we see his actual students' swings more often and less of his swings? It would be like ignoring Hunter Mahan, Justin Rose, or even Tiger Woods, and raving about how Sean Foley hits the ball.

Because Foley never led the ball striking stat on tour lol  Grant still hits it better than anyone he teaches.  Believe me I try to get as much footage of his students as I can.  I recorded two of his students swings from the US Open Charles Howell and Bill Lunde http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSandTrapGolf/videos

Daniel Summerhays is the best of his students, I use his swing a decent amount.

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Scary isn't it? Especially considering the fact they're Moderators/Administrators here.

Typically Mods/Admins are charged with keeping the peace and allowing discussions to occur without it getting personal. Guess that's only the case if you choose to drink the Kool Aid they're serving. Very telling indeed...........

I don't know who's taking it personal.  We've given you reasons for what we think and you haven't given us any for why a straight back is more advantageous for playing better golf.  Other than it being "traditional" or "athletic".  I don't get what traditional is, look at Hogan, Nelson, Snead, Nicklaus, Palmer, Jones, Trevino, Player, Miller.  I guess they were all drinking kool aid lol

[jamo]

Scary isn't it? Especially considering the fact they're Moderators/Administrators here. Typically Mods/Admins are charged with keeping the peace and allowing discussions to occur without it getting personal. Guess that's only the case if you choose to drink the Kool Aid they're serving. Very telling indeed...........

I can guarantee you that I have many better things to do that take a conversation about golf posture personally.

[Clambake]

Despite some of the usual non-constructive sniping, I'm actually finding this thread interesting.     One thing I'm not seeing here, though, is that regardless of any "flat back" versus "rounded back" discussion is that the spine has 4 normal curvatures - there is no such thing as a naturally straight spine.

I'm certainly not a physiologist and have no more than a minimal layman's understanding of how the body works, but it seems to me that if you have a set up posture that basically conforms to your natural spine shape, you won't have to make unconscious corrections through the whole shoulder turn and swing.    If you have parts of the spine that naturally have slightly more curvature (let's say it's the thoracic curve) and you try to straighten them more at set up, this puts stress in that area and you're having to work muscles that would not otherwise be compensating.   To try and maintain that same alignment through the swing would mean you have to keep making muscular and skeletal corrections through the swing to maintain the straighter-than-natural alignment.     Although this is certainly physically possible, anytime you're fighting your natural body build through a series of motion opens the door for inconsistency.

Looking at pictures of the different players posted through this thread, it appears that many are simply using their natural spine curvature in their posture and swinging around that.   Trying to suggest someone with more natural curvature should straighten out (or vice versa) would seem to introduce more swing inconsistency and be more prone to injury.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Clambake

Despite some of the usual non-constructive sniping, I'm actually finding this thread interesting.     One thing I'm not seeing here, though, is that regardless of any "flat back" versus "rounded back" discussion is that the spine has 4 normal curvatures - there is no such thing as a naturally straight spine.

I'm certainly not a physiologist and have no more than a minimal layman's understanding of how the body works, but it seems to me that if you have a set up posture that basically conforms to your natural spine shape, you won't have to make unconscious corrections through the whole shoulder turn and swing.    If you have parts of the spine that naturally have slightly more curvature (let's say it's the thoracic curve) and you try to straighten them more at set up, this puts stress in that area and you're having to work muscles that would not otherwise be compensating.   To try and maintain that same alignment through the swing would mean you have to keep making muscular and skeletal corrections through the swing to maintain the straighter-than-natural alignment.     Although this is certainly physically possible, anytime you're fighting your natural body build through a series of motion opens the door for inconsistency.

Looking at pictures of the different players posted through this thread, it appears that many are simply using their natural spine curvature in their posture and swinging around that.   Trying to suggest someone with more natural curvature should straighten out (or vice versa) would seem to introduce more swing inconsistency and be more prone to injury.

I would agree. I think that when you commonly tell people to have a "flat back" they overly straighten their spines. We don't really want people super slumpy or excessively (by the very nature of the word duh) rounding their backs, but a natural rounding of the spine is all we're after.

For decades the common advice has been to have your chin up and have a flat or straight back and sticking your butt out. There have been videos of people putting clubs against their backs and saying "just bend from the hips" when really there's a little more bend than that, largely from the thoracic spine. After all, our shoulders round in a little as our arms reach in front of us, and the spine curves roughly an added 10° or so forward (the same 10° or so that the spine "extends" as it tilts about 10° left during the backswing to retain our inclination to the ball).

[Pablo68]

Some people play without spines..........take my manager for instance.

Seriously; take him.

[Matt Filroy]

Awesome post, thanks.

[Matt Filroy]

Intresting.....how important is it to have a straight back? but really?

[mvmac]

Originally Posted by Matt Filroy

Intresting.....how important is it to have a straight back? but really?

This post may be a joke but I'll respond anyway.

This pic demonstrates a straight back or good standing posture.  You don't see good golfers with these kind of alignments in the cervical, thoracic or lumbar vertebrates.

If you had this kind of posture above and just bent from the waist you would create an "S Posture".  Here's what TPI says on that.

Lower back pain is one of the most common complaints of all golfers. This is usually due to the high velocity rotary forces that are applied upon the lumbar spine during the golf swing.  Some golfers actually put themselves into this position on purpose because they heard it was good to stick their butt out at set up. Unfortunately, if you arch your back to stick your butt out at set up, you are also putting your lower back in jeopardy of being injured.

The Lower Crossed Syndrome / “S-Posture”:

One of the most clinically relevant patterns of muscle dysfunction is a lower crossed syndrome. Simply stated, the lower crossed syndrome is a grouping of weak muscles combined with overactive or tight muscles, that create a predictable movement pattern in the lower back that can lead to injury.

Erik does a great job of summing it up here

Originally Posted by iacas

I think that when you commonly tell people to have a "flat back" they overly straighten their spines. We don't really want people super slumpy or excessively (by the very nature of the word duh) rounding their backs, but a natural rounding of the spine is all we're after.

For decades the common advice has been to have your chin up and have a flat or straight back and sticking your butt out. There have been videos of people putting clubs against their backs and saying "just bend from the hips" when really there's a little more bend than that, largely from the thoracic spine. After all, our shoulders round in a little as our arms reach in front of us, and the spine curves roughly an added 10° or so forward (the same 10° or so that the spine "extends" as it tilts about 10° left during the backswing to retain our inclination to the ball).

[bunkerputt]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

I choose to believe in the more traditional approach to the setup but not to the extreme.

This post made me laugh.  I wondered what this non-traditional guy would say to it:

[GJac10]

Great info.  thanks

[mvmac]

Pitching wedge on the right pic