Tunable Drivers with Adjustable Face Angle ... Huh?

[saevel25]

"Adjustable" drivers don't work for me at all because the flow of the shaft changes orientation every time it's adjusted. The only way it works is to find the right shaft orientation and leave it there regardless of whether it's the optimum face angle setting or not, or take a guess at the optimum face setting and have the shaft removed and reinstalled with the optimum shaft orientation.

Evidently it's not a problem that affects most golfers, because I never hear anyone mention it, but it's a very real problem for me. I play with an R9 but never adjust it (anymore).

I wrestled with it on different settings for quite a while with almost no success until it occurred to me  what the problem was.

Unless you get a golf shaft that has near perfect uniformity. Many golf shafts have 96, 97, 98, 99% uniformity on the axis. Which makes them ideal for adjustable drivers.

[MS256]

Unless you get a golf shaft that has near perfect uniformity. Many golf shafts have 96, 97, 98, 99% uniformity on the axis. Which makes them ideal for adjustable drivers.

You could be right. I only have first hand knowledge of one adjustable club and shaft. The club fitters that pure the shaft orientation would disagree with you though. The only reason I always bring it up is that there may be people like me that thought they had forgotten how to hit a driver and it might save them the trouble I had.

[saevel25]

You could be right. I only have first hand knowledge of one adjustable club and shaft. The club fitters that pure the shaft orientation would disagree with you though. The only reason I always bring it up is that there may be people like me that thought they had forgotten how to hit a driver and it might save them the trouble I had.

Well what tolerance are they looking at? It is true that perfect uniformity is impossible. How much uniformity matters in the golf swing? How much will you actually be able to tell in ball flight? What if with in 5% of uniformity you can't tell the difference.

[Hammer 4]

Well what tolerance are they looking at? It is true that perfect uniformity is impossible. How much uniformity matters in the golf swing? How much will you actually be able to tell in ball flight? What if with in 5% of uniformity you can't tell the difference.

That was really interesting. I'd never heard of this before, being an old school golfer that just returned to the game. Thanks for posting that..

Opps, That should have been a quote from MS256...sorry.

[MS256]

Well what tolerance are they looking at? It is true that perfect uniformity is impossible. How much uniformity matters in the golf swing? How much will you actually be able to tell in ball flight? What if with in 5% of uniformity you can't tell the difference.

Like I said before it may not matter much to anyone else (and may not matter at all) but it is night and day to me. Hitting fairways was the best part of my game before I bought that driver, went to one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life for months, to now seeming easy again, even on tight fairways.

I'm not trying to convince anyone else. Just information out there so they can make their own decisions.

[LBlack14]

Like I said before it may not matter much to anyone else (and may not matter at all) but it is night and day to me. Hitting fairways was the best part of my game before I bought that driver, went to one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life for months, to now seeming easy again, even on tight fairways. I'm not trying to convince anyone else. Just information out there so they can make their own decisions.

I've played them spined, flo'd, spined & flo'd & pured. That alone is not going to make much of a difference. It's all upstairs and in the swing imo.

[MS256]

I've played them spined, flo'd, spined & flo'd & pured. That alone is not going to make much of a difference. It's all upstairs and in the swing imo.

It makes a difference for me, and a drastic one.

If it doesn't apply to somebody else that's good. One less headache for them and they won't have to worry about it.

[LBlack14]

It makes a difference for me, and a drastic one. If it doesn't apply to somebody else that's good. One less headache for them and they won't have to worry about it.

Which makes me think it's all in your head. There's no hard evidence to prove any different, but hey! If it works for you then more power to you.

[mvmac]

Sure that's legal. You can switch clubs completely in between rounds, right? Pretty sure pros struggling with putting do this frequently. How would tuning your driver be any different than replacing it altogether? ;)

Yes it's legal to change the shaft, driver setting, change driver, between rounds.

You could be right. I only have first hand knowledge of one adjustable club and shaft. The club fitters that pure the shaft orientation would disagree with you though. The only reason I always bring it up is that there may be people like me that thought they had forgotten how to hit a driver and it might save them the trouble I had.

It makes a difference for me, and a drastic one.

From what I've heard with Fujikura testing on Enso, it really doesn't do anything, the shaft flexes all over the place so having it aligned in one direction won't do much.  If you feel it helps you then great not trying to burst your bubble but sharing what I've heard.  Hope to learn more soon.

[Golfingdad]

I've played them spined, flo'd, spined & flo'd & pured. That alone is not going to make much of a difference. It's all upstairs and in the swing imo.

It makes a difference for me, and a drastic one.

These two views are not mutually exclusive.  It could be all upstairs, but even if it is, it helps ms256, so, that's all that matters.

When I got my irons, pure-ing was offered to me by my fitter, and it was a pretty soft sell.  He basically said that there are some pros who swear by it, and others who think its a bunch of hooey and could give a rat's ass.  From that I conclude that lblack is probably right about it being more psychological ... and on that note, and because I was buying my first set of irons in 15 years, I went ahead and had them do it. :)  I don't notice a hill of beans difference between these and my old clubs in regards to the shaft alignment, but at least I KNOW that any issues cannot be because of misaligned shafts. ;)

[MS256]

Quote:

It could be all upstairs, but even if it is, it helps ms256, so, that's all that matters.

Of course there's no way to prove it but I assure you it's not "all upstairs".

I don't doubt at all that it doesn't apply to everyone else. My guess is that it has to do with my "bad" swing that probably puts different pressures on the shaft. For the same reason I can take a Swingrite training aid and very easily make it click on the number 1 setting and some of the guys at the course that are 20 yards longer than I am, and have much better golf swings, can't even make it click on the number 2 setting.

[LBlack14]

Quote: Of course there's no way to prove it but I assure you it's not "all upstairs". I don't doubt at all that it doesn't apply to everyone else. My guess is that it has to do with my "bad" swing that probably puts different pressures on the shaft. For the same reason I can take a Swingrite training aid and very easily make it click on the number 1 setting and some of the guys at the course that are 20 yards longer than I am, and have much better golf swings, can't even make it click on the number 2 setting.

The flo-ing of a shaft and the golf swing are 2 entirely different animals. The process doesn't resemble the golf swing's affect on a shaft in any way, shape or form. BIG difference in the force of a swing and a wobbling shaft with a 205g weight on the end. I understand the "theory" behind it, but I still say it's all in your head. I understand wanting consistency in your equipment and commend you for taking the extra step. Are all your other shafts flo-d? I have a feeling that you over analyze more than just this. No offense intended. Just an FYI, the shafts in my irons have been flo-ed and trimmed to make sure the flex has a decent slope so their flex is consistent. They were built by a friend builder who is meticulous about his builds. Do I think it makes a difference? Who knows, but it's more of a peace of mind thing for him. They were built for him btw, I just wound up with them and love them. El cheapo shafts and $10 heads. Sorta like making a nice purse out of a pigs ear I reckon. I'm not against the process. All I'm saying is that it's not going to make a night and day difference as you say. This is just my opinion.

[saevel25]

Quote:

Of course there's no way to prove it but I assure you it's not "all upstairs".

I don't doubt at all that it doesn't apply to everyone else. My guess is that it has to do with my "bad" swing that probably puts different pressures on the shaft. For the same reason I can take a Swingrite training aid and very easily make it click on the number 1 setting and some of the guys at the course that are 20 yards longer than I am, and have much better golf swings, can't even make it click on the number 2 setting.

I can say that if they could quantify it some how, I think their is probably some numerical difference between shaft alignments. Some people probably can tell the difference. For me at least I can get use to any club. To how the club feels swinging is most important. For me I find that means the club weight, how it bends going into impact, the size of the golf grip, the length of the club. How the club bends probably goes into the shaft alignment. It is probably more pronounced with lighter and less stiff golf shafts, just because they will deflect more.

Just a lot going on. Not trying to discredit what you feel. Just saying that in the grand scheme of things, its just a personal preference.

[Lihu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

It could be all upstairs, but even if it is, it helps ms256, so, that's all that matters.

Of course there's no way to prove it but I assure you it's not "all upstairs".

I don't doubt at all that it doesn't apply to everyone else. My guess is that it has to do with my "bad" swing that probably puts different pressures on the shaft. For the same reason I can take a Swingrite training aid and very easily make it click on the number 1 setting and some of the guys at the course that are 20 yards longer than I am, and have much better golf swings, can't even make it click on the number 2 setting.

Just reading this makes my wrists ache . The best I can do is the 3 setting, well, I did modify it so that the 9 and 7 settings are significantly different. Even with the stock swingrite, 1 is still over 125 mph. I think Bubba Watson is the only other person that can make it click at 1, so I am told.

For those who do not know, this is like swinging two SW weight-wise at 125mph.

[rehmwa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Right, inside the hosel unseen might be assymetrical, but visually the shaft and grip looks the same all the way around, so unless you have a putter grip on there it seems to me that you would always want to "fight" it.  I point the clubface in the direction I want to aim which I assume would counteract whatever I just changed underneath the club.

yup - it took me a while to 'get' this also.  They expect you to set up with the sole flat on the ground and not let the visual affect you.  Frankly, if I want to hit more of a fade/draw, I just set up for my launch line and (try ) to swing the appropriate path, I don't want to twist a dial.......  (I don't really try to shape my driver, I'm happy to try with certain irons and have some success there, but there's just too much going on with the driver to try to hit anything other than my stock shot - exception is if we're messing around and I want to try something dramatic like a big old bend around a leg - I don't have the control for fine stuff - easy to purposely hit a big hook, harder to control a light draw.)

the best "adjustment" I ever got?

1 - a couple lessons and practice

2 - replacing my adjustable driver with the non-adjustable "Limited" version.  Once I had lessons, all my adjustable settings eventually 'optimized' back to the defaults anyway.  (I don't think most owners do a lot of adjusting once then find a setting they've convinced themselves they want)

though I think loft adjustments (if the other metrics could be held constant) would be useful.

OH - I see this is a year old thread... anyway if this next guy is still around

Quote:

Regarding the new Nike VR-Str8t Fit Driver;  How is changing the club head setting any different from rotating the shaft within your grip?

Seems like those two options accomplish exactly the same thing.  In reverse application, couldn't you change the head setting and simply compensate for that change in your grip by rotating the shaft & club head back to a neutral position?

This is NOT true as another poster noted.   It does not just rotate about the centerline of the shaft. - What that specific spline does is advertise essectially a face angle change.  But it actually changes lie and face simultaneously while trying to keep loft constant (all assumes you set up with the sole plate flat).

Physically it's easiest to see this by:  Clamp the head of the club so it's immobile.  Now, if one takes the shaft and rotates it and reassembles it throughout the entire 360 degree rotation the shaft of the club will carve out a cone shape (apex, of course, if at the spline fit of the clamped head).  that's why it has TWO (an 'upright' and 'shallow') setting for each face angle option.

Newer adjustable bits are better able to accomplish face/lie/loft changes independently.  But that spline config (essentially a tiny dogleg in the end of the shaft) is very clever for the time.

[Golfingdad]

yup - it took me a while to 'get' this also.  They expect you to set up with the sole flat on the ground and not let the visual affect you.  Frankly, if I want to hit more of a fade/draw, I just set up for my launch line and (try ) to swing the appropriate path, I don't want to twist a dial.......  (I don't really try to shape my driver, I'm happy to try with certain irons and have some success there, but there's just too much going on with the driver to try to hit anything other than my stock shot - exception is if we're messing around and I want to try something dramatic like a big old bend around a leg - I don't have the control for fine stuff - easy to purposely hit a big hook, harder to control a light draw.)

the best "adjustment" I ever got?

1 - a couple lessons and practice

2 - replacing my adjustable driver with the non-adjustable "Limited" version.  Once I had lessons, all my adjustable settings eventually 'optimized' back to the defaults anyway.  (I don't think most owners do a lot of adjusting once then find a setting they've convinced themselves they want)

though I think loft adjustments (if the other metrics could be held constant) would be useful.

OH - I see this is a year old thread... anyway if this next guy is still around

This is NOT true as another poster noted.   It does not just rotate about the centerline of the shaft. - What that specific spline does is advertise essectially a face angle change.  But it actually changes lie and face simultaneously while trying to keep loft constant (all assumes you set up with the sole plate flat).

Physically it's easiest to see this by:  Clamp the head of the club so it's immobile.  Now, if one takes the shaft and rotates it and reassembles it throughout the entire 360 degree rotation the shaft of the club will carve out a cone shape (apex, of course, if at the spline fit of the clamped head).  that's why it has TWO (an 'upright' and 'shallow') setting for each face angle option.

Newer adjustable bits are better able to accomplish face/lie/loft changes independently.  But that spline config (essentially a tiny dogleg in the end of the shaft) is very clever for the time.

That's OK ... we were drifting way off topic anyways.  Perfectly acceptable to answer my OP if that means bringing us back on topic (especially when you agree with me).

[saevel25]

That's OK ... we were drifting way off topic anyways.  Perfectly acceptable to answer my OP if that means bringing us back on topic (especially when you agree with me).

No feeding @Golfingdad 's ego!!!

[rehmwa]

No feeding @Golfingdad's ego!!!

......  'ot