Tiger Injures Achilles Tendon

[jamo]

I don't think that is an accurate depiction of why he is having problems. Its not like Tiger is HUUUGE. He has a some good lean mass, looks athletic.I wouldn't say he put on so much mass its going to negatively affect his entire body in such a way.

Yes, I think people vastly overestimate how big Tiger is sometimes.

[Elvisliveson]

Originally Posted by jamo

Yes, I think people vastly overestimate how big Tiger is sometimes.

^This

[scottyjoe145]

I really want to think he had an injury.  I mean, he is acting like a spoiled brat these days...  but to pull out because you're not gonna win sounds a bit much.  I think the game is more interesting with him than without.  I think even through his negative media attention, injury plagued recent past, he has managed to climb back into the list of top golfers that currently play the game.  I hope he's not done forever.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by scottyjoe145

I really want to think he had an injury.  I mean, he is acting like a spoiled brat these days...  but to pull out because you're not gonna win sounds a bit much.  I think the game is more interesting with him than without.  I think even through his negative media attention, injury plagued recent past, he has managed to climb back into the list of top golfers that currently play the game.  I hope he's not done forever.

How is Tiger acing like a "spoiled brat" these days?

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

If Tiger doesn't believe that he has a chance to win, he'll retire and he's said as much when asked.

Arnie and Jack used to say the same thing, but both continued to play the US Open and Masters  well after they had any reasonable shot of winning.  (Although "any reasonable shot of winning" for a 60-yo has been completely redefined by the sprightly Tom Watson.)

[newtogolf]

That may be true, but Arnie and Jack enjoyed their role as an ambassador of golf and a good relationship with the media.  Tiger doesn't seem to want to be a golf ambassador nor does he have a good relationship with the media which is why I believe he'd get out of golf if he doesn't think he can win anymore.  Also Jack and Arnie did make nearly as much money as Tiger did during their careers.

Originally Posted by k-troop

Arnie and Jack used to say the same thing, but both continued to play the US Open and Masters  well after they had any reasonable shot of winning.  (Although "any reasonable shot of winning" for a 60-yo has been completely redefined by the sprightly Tom Watson.)

[jamo]

Tiger doesn't seem to want to be a golf ambassador...

I think he did before Thanksgiving 2009.

[newtogolf]

You're right, that day was a life changer for him.  Even before 2009 he never embraced the media like Jack and Arnie did.

Originally Posted by jamo

I think he did before Thanksgiving 2009.

[jamo]

You're right, that day was a life changer for him.  Even before 2009 he never embraced the media like Jack and Arnie did.

Agreed.

[Grunnsetning]

Am I the only one who thinks Tiger's WD is unsportsmanlike?  If I am, I'll re-think my position.  But here's what we know--

--Tiger's achilles is part of what kept him out of most of the 2010 season.

--Tiger felt the tightness during his warm-up during the a.m., and it didn't go away during his warm-up session.

--Tiger shot 62 last Sunday, and his ballstriking has been really good for a few weeks.

--Tiger withdrew when he was +3 or +4 through 11.

--By his own public statement, Tiger wasn't going to have his achilles checked out immediately after the WD.  He was going to get it looked at "sometime early next week."

My Conclusion:  Tiger felt the pain, but thought he could play through it when he had a chance to win.  He made the decision to quit only after it was apparent that he could not win.

Before knee-jerk reacting to this and saying horrible things about my parents, consider this:  Do you think Tiger would have quit if he were 3 shots back?

Is this not unsportsmanlike?  In our game, is it okay to allow "well, I can' win now" to be a factor in deciding whether it's okay to quit?

Critiques to this conclusion:

1. Tiger has a big fat well-paid doctor.  He called the doctor, who told him to elevate, ice, avoid, and see him in a few days when he could better evaluate whether it was a flare-up or a re-injury.  That's not "getting it checked out" in Tiger's mind.  Therefore, we can't conclude that Tiger's injury is minor just because he said "I'll be getting it checked out later this week."

--Counterpoint to 1:  why didn't Tiger just say that?  How hard is it to say:  "I spoke with my Doctor, he told me that he would be able to tell better in a few days whether this was just a painful flare-up or a re-injury..." if that's what really happened?

2. He was realistically out of contention late in the back nine, but played 3 or 4 more holes.  So he didn't quit "when it was apparent he couldn't win."

--Counterpoint to 2:  Do you think he would have quit on 12 if he was 2 or 3 behind the leader?  If you think he would have kept playing, then it should be apparent to you that the fact that he couldn't win factored into quitting.

3. Tiger couldn't have realistically thought that he could win when he teed it up.

--Counterpoint to 3:  That statement goes against everything Tiger stands for, and his 62 last Sunday tends to undercut this assumption.

4. Tiger's injury was getting worse throughout the day.

--Counterpoint to 4:  I'm not sure what point this makes.  Tiger was still walking.  He drove home.  He's played in FAR WORSE pain when he was in contention.  And, again:  would he have quit if he was still in contention?

5. Tiger's achilles/knee has kept him out of part of two seasons in the last 4 years.  A re-injury could cost him another season, millions of dollars (who cares), Jack's record, Ryder Cup, etc.

--Counterpoint to 5:  Then he should have never teed it up Sunday.  He should have walked from the range to the press tent and explained the situation.  If Doral is just a little warm-up on his quest for Majors glory, then how can he justify teeing it up on Sunday at all it if it risks the entire rest of his career?  (The only way is if he wins the tournament, ergo, he quit after it was clear that he couldn't win.)

I've thought about this a lot.  I don't see how you can look at the WD without seeing that "I couldn't win" factored into his decision to quit.  I also can't believe that is okay, given what our sport is about.  Bobby Jones quit in the middle of his first Open Championship.  Most folks agree that was a (if not THE) low point in his career.  Golfers and Sportsmen don't quit in the middle of a round just because they can't win.  I'm willing to reconsider this conclusion, but I'll need to be convinced.

My only conclusion to that book is that you have too much time on your hands.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by MSchott

How is Tiger acing like a "spoiled brat" these days?

You're telling me you forgot about the "death stare" confrontation from just a couple weeks ago?  Remember?  Where he went all ballistic on a reporter and dared to stare at him without smiling.

Originally Posted by Grunnsetning

My only conclusion to that book is that you have too much time on your hands.

And that he doesn't subscribe to Occam's Razor.  In all of that text he never even considered the simplest answer, which is likely the correct answer: he was in some level of pain/discomfort, gave it a go, wasn't playing well and the discomfort either sustained or worsened...so he withdrew.

Brandon

[k-troop]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

And that he doesn't subscribe to Occam's Razor.  In all of that text he never even considered the simplest answer, which is likely the correct answer: he was in some level of pain/discomfort, gave it a go, wasn't playing well and the discomfort either sustained or worsened...so he withdrew.

Brandon

Actually, in "all that text" I was making that exact point:  Tiger quit because he "wasn't playing well."  My question was is that okay.  Is it okay for a golfer, having decided to "give it a go" because he thinks he can win, to quit when it becomes apparent that he can't?

According to nearly everyone on this forum, it is perfectly okay.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Actually, in "all that text" I was making that exact point:  Tiger quit because he "wasn't playing well."  My question was is that okay.  Is it okay for a golfer, having decided to "give it a go" because he thinks he can win, to quit when it becomes apparent that he can't?

According to nearly everyone on this forum, it is perfectly okay.

That's not what anyone said. You completely left out "the golfer is injured" in the quoted text above, and it dramatically changes things.

[BugDude]

He was too busy embracing porn stars and IHOP girls.

Originally Posted by newtogolf

You're right, that day was a life changer for him.  Even before 2009 he never embraced the media like Jack and Arnie did.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

You're telling me you forgot about the "death stare" confrontation from just a couple weeks ago?  Remember?  Where he went all ballistic on a reporter and dared to stare at him without smiling.

What were you watching? There wasn't any going 'all ballistic' on anyone. Not even in the most remote sense. He refused to answer & was pressed, and he simply asked 'Is it in the book?' finished with a curt 'Have a nice day'.

Once again, we got someone making up shit to fit their predetermined opinion.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

What were you watching? There wasn't any going 'all ballistic' on anyone. Not even in the most remote sense. He refused to answer & was pressed, and he simply asked 'Is it in the book?' finished with a curt 'Have a nice day'.

Pretty sure that the post you quoted was sarcasm.

[zipazoid]

That would be the only thing that would make sense. Otherwise, I have no idea where he's coming from.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by k-troop

Actually, in "all that text" I was making that exact point:  Tiger quit because he "wasn't playing well."  My question was is that okay.  Is it okay for a golfer, having decided to "give it a go" because he thinks he can win, to quit when it becomes apparent that he can't?

According to nearly everyone on this forum, it is perfectly okay.

You are once again implying that the injury has nothing to do with it.  Now, if an athlete is injured and decides to give it a go only if he can win and once he realizes he can't, decides to quit, I would be okay with that.  But that is not the only possibility.  You are ignoring the possibility that he gave it a go to see if he could play through the injury, and once he realized he couldn't, he quit.

An interesting thing happens when Tiger WDs from a tourney.  Lots of folks assume the injury worsens as a result of poor play, and completely ignore the possibility that poor play could be a result of a worsening injury.  If the guy hadn't played well all week or in the recent past, that would be understandable, but that is not the case here.

Originally Posted by zipazoid

What were you watching? There wasn't any going 'all ballistic' on anyone. Not even in the most remote sense. He refused to answer & was pressed, and he simply asked 'Is it in the book?' finished with a curt 'Have a nice day'.

Once again, we got someone making up shit to fit their predetermined opinion.

I was trying to lay the sarcasm on extra thick to illustrate how, if people hate a person enough, they can see what they want to see in anything that person does.  I read that article and watched the vid and was laughing at how overblown the "confrontation" was.

Brandon