Types of wedges

[jnew47]

I want to try to get a little more back spin around the greens.  I have been looking at the new 56 degree wedge, clevland 588 forged.  what about yall and what do yall recomend?

[clubchamp]

What wedge do you currently play and what kind of spin do you get now? Generally the type of wedge will make little difference in the amount spin unless you asking old grooves vs new grooves.

[GaijinGolfer]

Mizuno MP T-12.  Theyre amazing wedges and even out of the rough I have no issues with being able to stop the ball on the green.

[MitchWayne]

I hate to be that guy... but you have to give the Titleist Spin-Milled Vokeys a try. Just a suggestion.

[tefunk]

The most important thing to getting the ball to spin is how you make contact with the ball.  Mizuno, Titleist, Cleveland, Ping, Callaway... you can do it with all of them.  The ball you use can make a difference too of course.  I would suggest getting to a pro shop with an outdoor range/chipping area and hit them all.  Then narrow it down to what you feel the most comfortable with.

Personally, I play Cleveland wedges.  I got a good deal on them back in the day and I've become accustomed to them.  Come 2014 (for amatuers) when I need to get new ones to conform to the groove rules, I will likely get the 588s (tried them out at my local pro shop and they are great).

That's my two cents

[danieldrieberg]

Well for back spin I play Reid Lockhart dual bounce wedges. The spin milled cast models. They can be ball shredders but for back spin and shot making they have worked fine for me. I would rather have my spin milled clubs be cast vs forged. The softer forged face seems to loss the sharpness of the milling rather quickly. Unlike the pro I can not afford switching wedges every month or so.

[GaijinGolfer]

  danieldrieberg said:

Originally Posted by danieldrieberg

I would rather have my spin milled clubs be cast vs forged. The softer forged face seems to loss the sharpness of the milling rather quickly. Unlike the pro I can not afford switching wedges every month or so.

*sigh* Once again, forged is not what makes it soft.  Carbon steel is what makes it soft.

[mlf16507]

SCOR 4161- That's all you need to know about wedges!---- http://www.scorgolf.com

http://www.oobgolf.com/content/the+wedge+guy/golf+instruction/5-5609-Hitting_Better_Wedge_and_Short_Iron_Shots.html

[Shorty]

  TitleistWI said:

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

*sigh* Once again, forged is not what makes it soft.  Carbon steel is what makes it soft.

You are guilty of spreading misinformation. You have got to stop doing it. People like you are the reason why so many beginners think forged = good and cast = bad.

And, you have the hide to condescendingly "sigh" as if you are politley waiting for another poster to catch on. YOU ARE WRONG.

[Golfingdad]

  Shorty said:

Originally Posted by Shorty

You are guilty of spreading misinformation. You have got to stop doing it. People like you are the reason why so many beginners think forged = good and cast = bad.

And, you have the hide to condescendingly "sigh" as if you are politley waiting for another poster to catch on. YOU ARE WRONG.

I was under the impression that forged clubs were made with softer steels and that is why they are easier to bend lofts and lies, no?  I think that was all he was saying, that physically they are softer material, which certainly wouldn't lead me to the conclusion that cast=bad.

[Golfingdad]

  Shorty said:

Originally Posted by Shorty

You are guilty of spreading misinformation. You have got to stop doing it. People like you are the reason why so many beginners think forged = good and cast = bad.

And, you have the hide to condescendingly "sigh" as if you are politley waiting for another poster to catch on. YOU ARE WRONG.

Oh, I get it ... this response was to a compilation of his posts form this, and the "forged irons" thread.  My comment defending him was only in relation to the one comment I quoted.

For the record, I have, unfortunately for me, never hit a forged iron, so I have no idea.  Your info seems reasonable to me though, and I would imagine that people think the better feel is a result of the manufacturing process, when in actuality its the quality of the club.  Guess I need to go test some new clubs and find out for myself!

[Shorty]

  Golfingdad said:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Oh, I get it ... this response was to a compilation of his posts form this, and the "forged irons" thread.  My comment defending him was only in relation to the one comment I quoted.

Correct.

The softness makes sense if you need to adjust lofts and lies.

As for the "forged" v "cast" BS, Titleist Vokey wedges are amongst the most played wedges on tour, and number 1 in wins, according to their marketing, and presumably Darrell Survey reports

They are cast. That should be the end of the story.

I would bet that they could make more money by introducing a "forged" line too cater to the sheep who believe the BS, but maybe they don't want to be tarrec with the same brush.

As I've mentioned elsewhere - I've played them all (Mizuno, Cleveland, Vokey, Callaway, Nike) and never really used a wedge I hated. I am currently using a Callaway forged. I like it because I like it. Not because it is forged.

The idea of a steel golf club hitting a very soft golf ball and feeling "soft"is ludicrous if you think about it for more than 3 seconds.

Imagine hitting a golf ball with a forged hammer and an identical  cast hammer, and claiming to be able to discern a difference. It would be idiotic.

[Golfingdad]

  Shorty said:

Originally Posted by Shorty

I am currently using a Callaway forged. I like it because I like it. Not because it is forged.

And I have older Clevelands (the RTG 588's) and love em.  Hoenstly, I have no idea if they are forged or not ... don't really care.

Perhaps the forged iron players who insist that they feel softer are muscleback or blade players, and what they are actually comparing is the larger difference in feel between solid hits and misses than the more forgiving (and usually cast) clubs have.  The bad shots feel so bad and vibrate so much, that it makes the good shots seem extra soft.

[sean_miller]

  Golfingdad said:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

I am currently using a Callaway forged. I like it because I like it. Not because it is forged.

And I have older Clevelands (the RTG 588's) and love em.  Hoenstly, I have no idea if they are forged or not ... don't really care.

Perhaps the forged iron players who insist that they feel softer are muscleback or blade players, and what they are actually comparing is the larger difference in feel between solid hits and misses than the more forgiving (and usually cast) clubs have.  The bad shots feel so bad and vibrate so much, that it makes the good shots seem extra soft.

They're cast and they rock. Hang on to them.l

[Mr. Desmond]

  jnew47 said:

Originally Posted by jnew47

I want to try to get a little more back spin around the greens.  I have been looking at the new 56 degree wedge, clevland 588 forged.  what about yall and what do yall recomend?

Wow ^^^ (posts above).

Cleveland forged 588 look good. These days, they all spin well. Select a wedge that looks good to your eye and has sufficient bounce to work for your swing. If you like to get creative, a lot of people like the Vokeys in the highest lofts (58-60) because of the amount of heel, toe and trailing edge relief. Being creative, I say creativity is overrated for most of us. You don't have to open up your high lofted wedge on every shot - so I'd say get enough bounce with a bit of relief, but nothing radical for the 58-60. Enjoy.

[GaijinGolfer]

  Golfingdad said:

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

I was under the impression that forged clubs were made with softer steels and that is why they are easier to bend lofts and lies, no?  I think that was all he was saying, that physically they are softer material, which certainly wouldn't lead me to the conclusion that cast=bad.

Thats exactly what I was saying.  Softness comes from the metal that is used, not the process which is used to form the metal.  At no point have I ever said that cast is bad.  Different, yes.  Bad, no.  The 2 process are very different but to say that one is good and the other is bad is a very narrow-minded way of thinking.

[GaijinGolfer]

  Shorty said:

Originally Posted by Shorty

Correct.

The softness makes sense if you need to adjust lofts and lies.

As for the "forged" v "cast" BS, Titleist Vokey wedges are amongst the most played wedges on tour, and number 1 in wins, according to their marketing, and presumably Darrell Survey reports

They are cast. That should be the end of the story.

I would bet that they could make more money by introducing a "forged" line too cater to the sheep who believe the BS, but maybe they don't want to be tarrec with the same brush.

As I've mentioned elsewhere - I've played them all (Mizuno, Cleveland, Vokey, Callaway, Nike) and never really used a wedge I hated. I am currently using a Callaway forged. I like it because I like it. Not because it is forged.

The idea of a steel golf club hitting a very soft golf ball and feeling "soft"is ludicrous if you think about it for more than 3 seconds.

Imagine hitting a golf ball with a forged hammer and an identical  cast hammer, and claiming to be able to discern a difference. It would be idiotic.

Actually, Bob Vokey chooses to cast his wedges because its a much cheaper manufacturing process.  The wedges that he sells in Japan are forged because people in Japan have no interest in cast clubs.

As for the whole cast vs forged think, it comes down to 2 very simple things: air pockets and metal density.  Forging eliminates the air pockets that are in cast metals and it packed the molecules more tightly together because the metal is pounded into shape instead of merely being poured into a mold.

A simple demonstration of this would be to take a small trash can and then crumple up a dozen or so sheets of paper.  Now, drop those sheets of paper into the trash can.  Notice the air pockets and the irregular shapes?  Now, do the same thing but pack the crumpled up piece of paper into the can.  Notice the lack of spaces between the paper and how uniform the shapes are?  Its the same with forming metal.  I find it actually laughable that is ever other field where metal parts are used (automobiles, motorcycles, trains) forged parts are always considered to be of highly quality, high durability, more precise and just overall better than their forged counterparts but somehow in golf people have been convinced that forged and cast is the same.  They are not the same and never will be.

Thats not to say that cast is bad.  Cast has its advantages, especially in clubs that you want more distance or more forgiveness with because you can make them more springy (because you can cast metal much thinner than you can forge it) and because you can make a much deeper cavity with a casting than you can a forging.

[iacas]

  TitleistWI said:

Originally Posted by TitleistWI

Actually, Bob Vokey chooses to cast his wedges because its a much cheaper manufacturing process.  The wedges that he sells in Japan are forged because people in Japan have no interest in cast clubs.

As for the whole cast vs forged think, it comes down to 2 very simple things: air pockets and metal density.  Forging eliminates the air pockets that are in cast metals and it packed the molecules more tightly together because the metal is pounded into shape instead of merely being poured into a mold.

A simple demonstration of this would be to take a small trash can and then crumple up a dozen or so sheets of paper.  Now, drop those sheets of paper into the trash can.  Notice the air pockets and the irregular shapes?  Now, do the same thing but pack the crumpled up piece of paper into the can.  Notice the lack of spaces between the paper and how uniform the shapes are?  Its the same with forming metal.  I find it actually laughable that is ever other field where metal parts are used (automobiles, motorcycles, trains) forged parts are always considered to be of highly quality, high durability, more precise and just overall better than their forged counterparts but somehow in golf people have been convinced that forged and cast is the same.  They are not the same and never will be.

Thats not to say that cast is bad.  Cast has its advantages, especially in clubs that you want more distance or more forgiveness with because you can make them more springy (because you can cast metal much thinner than you can forge it) and because you can make a much deeper cavity with a casting than you can a forging.

In other words, you completely believe everything Mizuno tells you. :-) Air pockets, etc. etc.

And you can forge metals just as thin as you can cast them, perhaps even thinner. Hammer on a metal long enough and you can get it down pretty thin.

Really not the point though. Vokey's wedges are cast because they're easier and faster, and the point others were making is simply this: if a cast Vokey is good enough for a PGA Tour pro, it's good enough for the average golfer.