Ball flight laws

[inthecup]

I have been working on a push draw ball flight for my driver.  I am trying to maximize my distance and it has been working to a degree.  My miss is a push with no draw.  I just read the ball flight laws listed here http://thesandtrap.com/a/big-list-of-golf-terminology .  Reading this can I assume my miss is because I do not bring the club enough inside?  If I get the ball direction I want then it is the difference between the path and club face that is not enough to cause the ball to draw.

Is this correct?

[poser]

if you are hitting a push that doesn't come back your face and path are lined up perfect.  You just need to have the face slightly more closed at impact.

[xmanhockey7]

If you're hitting a straight push you're coming from the inside to out with a square club face relative to your swing plane.

http://www.free-online-golf-tips.com/ball-flight-chart.html

[phillyk]

Agreeing with both of above; the way i think about it is that I want the club face to face where i want the ball to end up and the rest of my body should face the line I want the ball to start at.  This really only works for slight draws or fades. I can't seem to make it consistent for bigger curving efforts.

[carrx]

I love reading the "ball flight law" related threads, they are so interesting to me.  For the life of me, I am still trying to "feel" the push draw swing in my own game.

My swing started out mostly over the top, and has evolved from a "slice" to a "pull cut" to "mostly straight/gentle fade".  As I have improved, I have tried periodically to "feel" the draw shot, especially with my irons.  I sometimes hit a draw off the tee with woods/hybrid clubs, but not typically, and for the live of me, I still cannot bend an iron shot from right to left (I play right handed).

Lately I've been spending my practice time working on my golf posture (another great thread on this site), and a fuller turn, which has led to some interesting new variances with my ball flights:  big hooks.  When I execute properly, I can now hit a 10 yard draw with the driver/fairway wood, and have even hooked a few irons.  Yet that "push draw" shot mentioned so frequently on this site still eludes me.

I get the notion that a club face closed to the path, which is open to the line is what creates it; but making that happen is the problem.  It sees like no matter what I try, I end up hitting irons "at" the target instead of curving them.  And, when I am playing (not practicing), I don't want to use a competitive round to practice these shots.

I guess the question is, "How do I get to the push/draw from here?"  I don't mean to hijack the thread, I'm just fascinated by this.

Thanks!

[Zeph]

Agreeing with both of above; the way i think about it is that I want the club face to face where i want the ball to end up and the rest of my body should face the line I want the ball to start at.  This really only works for slight draws or fades. I can't seem to make it consistent for bigger curving efforts.

That is incorrect. Ball starts 70-90% towards the face and curves away from the path, unless the path and face is square. http://thesandtrap.com/t/56453/ball-flight-laws-and-misinformation Turning a push into a push-draw is achieved by swinging more in-out or close the clubface a little.

[phillyk]

Originally Posted by Zeph

That is incorrect. Ball starts 70-90% towards the face and curves away from the path, unless the path and face is square.

http://thesandtrap.com/t/56453/ball-flight-laws-and-misinformation

Turning a push into a push-draw is achieved by swinging more in-out or close the clubface a little.

I'm just trying to understand.  I don't want to come off as annoying.  But you said the ball starts towards the face most of the time, and yet you suggest swinging in to out with the club face closed to produce a push draw.  Those sound like opposites, because the path and face will not be square with what you suggest.  With your 1st statement, you'd say the 2nd statement would instead produce a normal draw that starts straight.  Can you set me straight?

In my post, I suggest that by swinging in to out, the ball will start a bit out to the right and draw back bc with the club face facing straight, it will produce the proper spin.  I don't think the ball will start straight with an in to out path and the face slightly closed, or maybe I'm completely wrong...

[iacas]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I'm just trying to understand.  I don't want to come off as annoying.  But you said the ball starts towards the face most of the time, and yet you suggest swinging in to out with the club face closed to produce a push draw.  Those sound like opposites, because the path and face will not be square with what you suggest.  With your 1st statement, you'd say the 2nd statement would instead produce a normal draw that starts straight.  Can you set me straight?

He's saying closed to the path.

If the target is 0, and degrees are "to the right" of the target for a righty, a push-draw might be 2 degree "open" face (face pointing 2° right of the target) with a path that's 4 degrees right (thus the face is 2° closed to the path while being 2° open to the target).

The ball will start at about 2.2 degrees and draw back to the target.

[EverythingGolf]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I'm just trying to understand.  I don't want to come off as annoying.  But you said the ball starts towards the face most of the time, and yet you suggest swinging in to out with the club face closed to produce a push draw.  Those sound like opposites, because the path and face will not be square with what you suggest.  With your 1st statement, you'd say the 2nd statement would instead produce a normal draw that starts straight.  Can you set me straight?

In my post, I suggest that by swinging in to out, the ball will start a bit out to the right and draw back bc with the club face facing straight, it will produce the proper spin.  I don't think the ball will start straight with an in to out path and the face slightly closed, or maybe I'm completely wrong...

Its a marriage between the path and face.

The ball will start between the 2 black dotted lines. It depends on how much the face is open or closed and the path the club is travelling on.

The club head is either closed or open to the path do produce spin on the ball.

Closed to the path = draw/hook spin.

Open to the path = fade/slice spin.

[xmanhockey7]

Originally Posted by phillyk

I'm just trying to understand.  I don't want to come off as annoying.  But you said the ball starts towards the face most of the time, and yet you suggest swinging in to out with the club face closed to produce a push draw.  Those sound like opposites, because the path and face will not be square with what you suggest.  With your 1st statement, you'd say the 2nd statement would instead produce a normal draw that starts straight.  Can you set me straight?

In my post, I suggest that by swinging in to out, the ball will start a bit out to the right and draw back bc with the club face facing straight, it will produce the proper spin.  I don't think the ball will start straight with an in to out path and the face slightly closed, or maybe I'm completely wrong...

You're getting confused between the target line and the swing path. It's about how the club face is relative to the swing path. So if the swing path is in to out and the club face is square to that swing path you'll hit a straight push. The club face in relation to the target line though is "open". That's what I struggled with a little at first was recognizing that it's not so much about target line but swing path.