What would you do if you found the Thief?

[zipazoid]

One more time, cuz stating it 4 times apparently didn't sink in, I said those that are careless with their equipment deserves whatever happens as a result of their carelessness.

Cmon. You guys aren't that dense are you? Honestly - stop trying to read something I didn't mean into what I wrote.

But now that I've read 3+ pages of calling me a thief or condoning theft, and one totally vulgar & irresponsible comparison to rape, time to (sigh) once again try to be clear -

If you lose a club don't expect to see it again. If you do, you lucked out. I hope I have now made that clear.

The person that 'found' it & took it is a thief. I hope I have now made that clear.

I am not a thief. I do not take found clubs. I hope I have now made that clear.

When faced with finding a club on the course here's what I do -

1. I try to reach the group in front of me, maybe catching them on the next tee, and ask if one of them lost a club.

2. If no, I put it in the basket behind the seats of the cart - not in my bag (cuz I may forget it's in there).

3. If no one comes by to claim it by the end of the round, I turn it into the pro shop.

For crissakes, are we clear now?

[Gresh24]

To even compare a rape victim to a victim of any stolen good is just insane.  I can't believe what I am reading on here...

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Moxie Dawn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shorty

And where others try to absolve some of the blame from thieves because they are tempted by others' carelessnes.

And where some have female friends who refer to themselves as "chicks".

You can learn a lot, can't you?

Please educate me on what you learned from that.

I learned that someone resorted to creating a fake profile to add credibility to their POV.

[Moxie Dawn]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

To even compare a rape victim to a victim of any stolen good is just insane.  I can't believe what I am reading on here...

Thank you.

[Shorty]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Only if you pay attention, which you aren't.

I didn't absolve anyone of anything. Find it. Prove me wrong.

You left out the two words "some of"". (relating to blame)

Originally Posted by Shorty
And where others try to absolve some of the blame from thieves because they are tempted by others' carelessnes.

Makes a bit of a difference.

You clearly haven't paid attention. And you have quite clearly state4d that the loser of the club is partly resoponsible.

Even your wordy self titled "chick" friend would acknowledge that.

But we'll probably get another down home personal anecdote from her to prove that she's got a higher philosophical aspiration than to get into niggling debates with nerdy golfers.

[Moxie Dawn]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I learned that someone resorted to creating a fake profile to add credibility to their POV.

Conspiracy theorist much? Look me up on Facebook. I exist. Have for a long time.

[Moxie Dawn]

Originally Posted by Shorty

You left out the two words "some of"". (relating to blame)

Originally Posted by Shorty

And where others try to absolve some of the blame from thieves because they are tempted by others' carelessnes.

Makes a bit of a difference.

You clearly haven't paid attention. And you have quite clearly state4d that the loser of the club is partly resoponsible.

Even your wordy self titled "chick" friend would acknowledge that.

But we'll probably get another down home personal anecdote from her to prove that she's got a higher philosophical aspiration than to get into niggling debates with nerdy golfers.

What's your problem with that? Is that a no-no word these days?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I learned that someone resorted to creating a fake profile to add credibility to their POV.

Ah. So now I'm creating fake profiles.

Keep it up gang. You'll have me responsible for 9/11 before you're done.

I'll say this once...and I can't even believe I have to, but this place is loaded with some odd ducks - Moxie is real. She is a friend of mine. As her first post indicated.

Now, either believe that, or put your tinfoil hats back on. Sheesh.

[14ledo81]

Question for Zip.  Two scenarios.

Scenario #1- I leave my car unlocked in the parking lot with my laptop on the passenger seat.  I come out of the store, and find it has been stolen.  Some of the blame is mine?

Scenario #2- I leave my car locked in the parking lot with my laptop on the passenger seat.  I come out of the store, and find the window broken, and the laptop missing.  None of the blame is mine?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Shorty

You left out the two words "some of"". (relating to blame)

Originally Posted by Shorty

And where others try to absolve some of the blame from thieves because they are tempted by others' carelessnes.

Makes a bit of a difference.

You clearly haven't paid attention. And you have quite clearly state4d that the loser of the club is partly resoponsible.

Even your wordy self titled "chick" friend would acknowledge that.

But we'll probably get another down home personal anecdote from her to prove that she's got a higher philosophical aspiration than to get into niggling debates with nerdy golfers.

YES. The person that lost the club is partly responsible! That's what I believe. If you don't agree have a nice freekin day! Sheesh.

Why don't you start acting like a "Forum Leader" instead of looking for boogiemen that don't exist, k?

Try this: Welcome to the site Mox. Make yourself at home.

Oh I forgot. You think that's me. Duh.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

Question for Zip.  Two scenarios.

Scenario #1- I leave my car unlocked in the parking lot with my laptop on the passenger seat.  I come out of the store, and find it has been stolen.  Some of the blame is mine?

Scenario #2- I leave my car locked in the parking lot with my laptop on the passenger seat.  I come out of the store, and find the window broken, and the laptop missing.  None of the blame is mine?

Answer for both:

If you leave your club on the course don't expect to see it again. If you do you lucked out.

[Gresh24]

Wow.  Yeah, it takes creating a fake profile to come up with someone that sees a difference in rape victim and a person who loses a golf club.

[jamo]

I am not a thief. I do not take found clubs. I hope I have now made that clear.

What about the putter from page 2?

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I learned that someone resorted to creating a fake profile to add credibility to their POV.

Ah. So now I'm creating fake profiles.

Keep it up gang. You'll have me responsible for 9/11 before you're done.

I'll say this once...and I can't even believe I have to, but this place is loaded with some odd ducks - Moxie is real. She is a friend of mine. As her first post indicated.

Now, either believe that, or put your tinfoil hats back on. Sheesh.

I actually didn't even catch that she was a friend of yours - LOL - I just knew "she" joined this forum to discuss this one topic. What's her take on the depth of field at The Masters?

Dude, I got what you said about taking care of your stuff, but when people suggest not locking something up makes a person "deserve" having it stolen, then I wonder what that person is like to play against for money. Yeah, sticking to golf, if I don't watch an opponent like a hawk for the entire round would I deserve to lose if they win by cheating?

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by Gresh24

Wow.  Yeah, it takes creating a fake profile to come up with someone that sees a difference in rape victim and a person who loses a golf club.

Yeah really Gresh. I care so much about making my point that I created a fake profile so I could agree with myself.

Check the IP addresses, Mods. Unless I can simultaneously be in Florida & Alabama, it's not a fake profile. Trust me, it's not that important to me.

[zipazoid]

Originally Posted by jamo

What about the putter from page 2?

Go to hell.

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

We are all paying attention, I can assure you.  You've said several times that careless people deserve what they get.  You also said that a person who leaves his car unlocked and it gets stolen "shares in the blame" for that theft.  That is absolving the thief.  And, incidentally, that is the analogy that got me thinking about the rape analogy (even though I wasn't the first to actually make it).  The only thing the unlocked car does is make it slightly easier and more tempting for the thief, just as the only thing the short skirt does is make it slightly more tempting for the rapist, just as the unattended club makes it slightly easier for the club thief.  The rape victim and car theft victim (and golf club theft victim) all share the same amount of blame for what happened to them ... zero.

I completely agree. The victim might be called an idiot or careless for tempting someone, but they can't be held responsible for what tempts others and have no way of knowing beforehand. The thief has the burden of the moral choice and there are no mitigating factors to be considered. Either he performs the crime or not. Whether it's opportunistic or not is a moot point. The temptation might cause someone to decide to do the wrong thing, but it's still the wrong thing. He could find someone vulnerable who isn't paying attention or he could see someone with valuables who he could beat down and rob. In terms of the theft itself, the two are the same. (the assault is an additional matter) The thief sees an opportunity to take advantage and he does.

Correct moral choice:  Pick up the wedge and make a reasonable attempt to find the owner or turn it into the clubhouse. You're looking out for others and not trying to gain. Good on you.

Neutral moral choice:  Leave the wedge there and pretend you never saw it. If someone else steals it, fine. If the owner gets back to it, fine. You chose not to do a simple act of good, but resisted the temptation to steal. This is extremely passive and unfortunately common, and it's the wrong choice but not as bad as the next:

Dickish moral choice: You furtively pick up the wedge and neither turn it in nor say you've seen it. If confronted, you lie to people's faces. You gain one wedge for free. You justify it however you want, blame the victim, or consider it something you deserve or earned somehow. That person is out a bundle of dough and could have lost a club they valued greatly. But you don't care. Whether you get caught or not, you are a complete dick and clearly value a 50$ wedge over other, more important things. Plus, I don't justify the owner coming back and beating you to a pulp over this, because that's not the right thing to do either, but I'd like to point out that it's only a possibility if you take this choice. Hell, if you do the right thing, he'd probably buy you a drink or something. Maybe make a friend?

I agree that people should look out for their belongings and they have a responsibility to do so. However, gentlemen should be looking out for each other as well. See someone's ball they're looking for? Find a dropped club or glove? Wallet? Try to get it back to them, especially if you know who dropped it. Even if they play slow and don't show courtesy, sometimes showing an act of kindness will make them feel guilty and teach them a better lesson than causing trouble. I've served people who were being complete *******s at my old job but gave them the benefit of the doubt and gave them good service. Usually they would realize they were rude or that I was giving them particularly good service and change their attitude. It actually does people good when you go out of your way to be polite and changes them for the better.

How about if you unintentionally hit into a group ahead and not yell fore because they need to learn to pay attention? Or even do it on purpose to send them a message? That's a very typical incident on a golf course using the "blame the victim" justification. If you want to get back at them for showing poor etiquette or playing slow, you'd justify hitting into them as their own fault for pissing you off.

Maybe you're a redeemable human being if you kept a found club. But if you were judged by that decision alone, you would be a thief. There's no way to defend the choice at all.

[14ledo81]

Originally Posted by zipazoid

Answer for both:

If you leave your club on the course don't expect to see it again. If you do you lucked out.

I agree with this statement, but if someone decided to keep it (steal), I don't think I am to blame.  Even partly.