Play the Correct Tee!

[wolfsburg2]

I can put it in the woods from whatever tee box the course has :)

Seriously though, I am a 19.x handicap right now, shooting mid 90s every round (legit). I can hit the ball plenty far, length isn't really an issue for me. my home course is 6800 or so from the back. I play from back there exclusively.

[Double Bogey]

  wolfsburg2 said:

Originally Posted by wolfsburg2

I can put it in the woods from whatever tee box the course has :)

That is my point about it not being any faster.

[dsc123]

  Motley01 said:

Originally Posted by Motley01

I'm playing in an 2 day tournament this weekend at my home course. Called Heaven & Heck.

Heaven day is Saturday, we play from the forward tees (ladies red) at 5200 yards.

Heck day is Sunday, and we play from the Championship tees (black) at a whopping 7500 yards. Yes folks, 7500 yards!

And its a difficult course, with ravines in between the tees and fairways. Some of the carries on Sunday will be 240 yards.

It will but nuts.

Take note of the time differences!  If you get around the course in 3hrs on Heaven day and 5 hours on Hell day, that would be interesting to know.

[dsc123]

  Mr3Wiggle said:

Originally Posted by Mr3Wiggle

I think the assumption is you will score lower from the forward tees and thus take fewer shots.  Fewer shots = faster round.

That's the only rationale, but I don't think its very persuasive.  We're talking 1 set of tees in most cases, which probably would save a person would probably 2-3 strokes.  That's a difference of 2-5 minutes over the course of a 240-270 minute round.  Playing the wrong tees is not the problem.  Publications and courses like to point to that because its a lot easier to implement than a shot clock.  But its looking for balls, not being ready to hit, standing over the ball for 45 seconds before you swing and just plain sucking at the game that cause slow play.

As to whether someone has more fun from a shorter tee, that's a totally different issue.  And in that case, what some other guy is doing shouldn't bother us.

[sean_miller]

Tee if Forward sounds like a bad day for any player who can hit the ball a decent distance. We get to decide whether to wait far too long on the tee for a chance to hit, then feel very rushed, or use a mid-iron off the tee all day. Woot - money well spent.

[Remark37]

  dsc123 said:

Originally Posted by dsc123

That's the only rationale, but I don't think its very persuasive.  We're talking 1 set of tees in most cases, which probably would save a person would probably 2-3 strokes.  That's a difference of 2-5 minutes over the course of a 240-270 minute round.  Playing the wrong tees is not the problem.  Publications and courses like to point to that because its a lot easier to implement than a shot clock.  But its looking for balls, not being ready to hit, standing over the ball for 45 seconds before you swing and just plain sucking at the game that cause slow play.

As to whether someone has more fun from a shorter tee, that's a totally different issue.  And in that case, what some other guy is doing shouldn't bother us.

I agree with the looking for balls. I play with some people like this. Even if they know where their ball is, they will look in tall grass, shrubs, or woods for other balls. I also played a round a few weeks ago that took about 6 hours. There were two older men ahead of us and it was a crammed course. While the group ahead of them were hitting, they would sit there. Then when they pulled away, then the old men would start looking for their ball for 10 minutes in the tall grass. It got to the point where the ranger road with them the rest of the round.

I don't mind people sucking. We all sucked at some point and everyone paid there money to enjoy the course. My wife just started and has been out twice. If people get behind us, I tell her to pick up and go to my ball. Take a whack at it from there, then repeat. It's when they suck and cause a big clog on the course. They refuse to pick up and move along. It seems they always go prime time as well, when the course is busy.

[dsc123]

  Remark37 said:

Originally Posted by Remark37

I don't mind people sucking. We all sucked at some point and everyone paid there money to enjoy the course. My wife just started and has been out twice. If people get behind us, I tell her to pick up and go to my ball. Take a whack at it from there, then repeat. It's when they suck and cause a big clog on the course. They refuse to pick up and move along. It seems they always go prime time as well, when the course is busy.

Oh sure.  I don't mean to suggest that people that suck shouldn't play.  But its a undeniable that shooting double par on every hole slows down play.  To me, that's sort of unavoidable.

[Remark37]

  dsc123 said:

Originally Posted by dsc123

Oh sure.  I don't mean to suggest that people that suck shouldn't play.  But its a undeniable that shooting double par on every hole slows down play.  To me, that's sort of unavoidable.

Right, I agree. There's no doubt it will slow us down. I don't mind if they recognize they are slow and work to keep up the pace. It's when they are screwing around and have no concern for anyone else on the course is when I care and was trying to imply.

[sean_miller]

  dsc123 said:

Originally Posted by dsc123

Quote:

Originally Posted by Remark37

I don't mind people sucking. We all sucked at some point and everyone paid there money to enjoy the course. My wife just started and has been out twice. If people get behind us, I tell her to pick up and go to my ball. Take a whack at it from there, then repeat. It's when they suck and cause a big clog on the course. They refuse to pick up and move along. It seems they always go prime time as well, when the course is busy.

Oh sure.  I don't mean to suggest that people that suck shouldn't play.  But its a undeniable that shooting double par on every hole slows down play.  To me, that's sort of unavoidable.

One guy on here was saying he takes about 40 seconds to tee off. He was grilled by a lot of people for being too slow. Ihad a couple problems with that.

1.) The guy is a lowish single digit who probably hits on or very near the green on the par 3s and hits the ball into a good position on the par 4s and 5s. A few extra seconds off the tee can save a lot of time by the end of the round.

2.) People also tend to underestimate how long they take. This guy seems to have timed himself (as I've done on occasion - when you video your playing of holes the time is right there on the screen during playback) and 40 seconds goes by very quickly when you're walking from your bag to the pin or ball and back. I've always played at a decent pace, but noticed I could make a couple small changes and play even quicker and more efficiently.

Basically what I'm saying is that a lot of people are very slow and they don't realize it. If people videotaped their own preshot routine and swing during actual rounds they might be surprised at how much time is wasted on relatively simple shots.

[trackster]

  sean_miller said:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

One guy on here was saying he takes about 40 seconds to tee off. He was grilled by a lot of people for being too slow. Ihad a couple problems with that.

1.) The guy is a lowish single digit who probably hits on or very near the green on the par 3s and hits the ball into a good position on the par 4s and 5s. A few extra seconds off the tee can save a lot of time by the end of the round.

2.) People also tend to underestimate how long they take. This guy seems to have timed himself (as I've done on occasion - when you video your playing of holes the time is right there on the screen during playback) and 40 seconds goes by very quickly when you're walking from your bag to the pin or ball and back. I've always played at a decent pace, but noticed I could make a couple small changes and play even quicker and more efficiently.

Basically what I'm saying is that a lot of people are very slow and they don't realize it. If people videotaped their own preshot routine and swing during actual rounds they might be surprised at how much time is wasted on relatively simple shots.

I think you nailed it on the head with the bold part.  People seem to think that you are going to save time on the course by shortening up your pre-shot  routines.  In reality the time that you occur on the golf course is getting to your ball, searching for your ball, and multiple horrible shots.  If you are hitting GIR's then take a minute to hit for all I care, you are still going to be faster than the duffer who plays 10 shots to the green.

[hendog]

  trackster said:

Originally Posted by trackster

I think you nailed it on the head with the bold part.  People seem to think that you are going to save time on the course by shortening up your pre-shot  routines.  In reality the time that you occur on the golf course is getting to your ball, searching for your ball, and multiple horrible shots.  If you are hitting GIR's then take a minute to hit for all I care, you are still going to be faster than the duffer who plays 10 shots to the green.

This is where I actually lose some strokes. For years I was that guy hacking it up so I learned to just grip and rip. Now I can play a little but still rush shots to try and hurry and end up with the wrong club or forget about a bunker or slope of the green I'm coming into. Little things that might save me strokes. I'm usually the one pushing though so I am forced to chill out sometimes.

But I agree that tees won't make it faster. It might make it more enjoyable but only for those serious about playing a good round. For those that are there just to mess around it won't matter.

[Jimdangles]

I dont want to go back and re quote everything but there were a few points I would like to disagree with.

1) I was the 16 handicap that claimed to hit it 300 yards right down the middle. I am a 16 handicap but have come to the realization that I hit it 260-280 and may reach 300 on rare occasions and havent straightened out my drive but learned to play a pretty dependable fade that lands in the fairway (8/10 last weekend). Handicap can have reflection on distance but the two are not interchangeable. I even have a decent mid iron game and a real good wedge game. If i chip from off the green im likely to get closer than I would with a putter. 16 handicap for me does come from an occasional fat shot or a drive into the trees or ball into the water adds strokes real fast. I shot 5 over on the back but one hole was a triple bogey after hitting a perfect 3 wood around the dog leg.

2) Moving down tees for me would only mean avoiding the driver to make sure your more accurate with a 3 wood. Well thats just avoiding the problem and using a driver and moving up only changes my 100 yard punch shot out of the trees to a 80 yard punch shot.

3) Every player just needs to know what tees fit them. I like what somebody said earlier. if you shoot over 100 than you should believe in the tee it forward movement while if you're shooting 80's or 90's consistently (like me) moving back creates a better more fun challenge. Im playing nicer courses for the distance. If I wanted to play a 5000 yard course I would save my money and play an executive course.

[NM Golf]

  Double Bogey said:

Originally Posted by Double Bogey

Forgive me for getting off topic a bit, but how is this supposed to speed up play?  Don't get me wrong I am all for Tee It Forward, but it is not going to speed up play.  It does make the game more fun (at least for me), but it is not any faster.  From my perspective most time is spent either looking for balls, not being ready to play, or putting.  Teeing it forward is not going to change that.  It will just allow the player to possibly hit a couple less shots, not necessarily better ones.

Playing forward speed up play in several ways. First, we can all agree the more lofted a club, the easier it is to hit, less chance of a bad shot. So playing it forward makes it possible for people to put shorter more lofted clubs in their hands sooo, less bad shots, less searching, less time.

Par 3s are more reachable and like above people can hit shorter clubs into them.

Lastly, I see it all the time. Someone comes back to the back tees and now their whole game goes crazy. They start swinging harder because they feel they need to hit it farther. Its crazy it can put more pressure on them.

[sean_miller]

  NM Golf said:

Originally Posted by NM Golf

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Bogey

Forgive me for getting off topic a bit, but how is this supposed to speed up play?  Don't get me wrong I am all for Tee It Forward, but it is not going to speed up play.  It does make the game more fun (at least for me), but it is not any faster.  From my perspective most time is spent either looking for balls, not being ready to play, or putting.  Teeing it forward is not going to change that.  It will just allow the player to possibly hit a couple less shots, not necessarily better ones.

Playing forward speed up play in several ways. First, we can all agree the more lofted a club, the easier it is to hit, less chance of a bad shot. So playing it forward makes it possible for people to put shorter more lofted clubs in their hands sooo, less bad shots, less searching, less time.

Par 3s are more reachable and like above people can hit shorter clubs into them.

Lastly, I see it all the time. Someone comes back to the back tees and now their whole game goes crazy. They start swinging harder because they feel they need to hit it farther. Its crazy it can put more pressure on them.

I found I swung too hard from the forward tees trying to drive greens and carry hazards I have no business trying to carry. To each their own.

[rustyredcab]

  sean_miller said:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I found I swung too hard from the forward tees trying to drive greens and carry hazards I have no business trying to carry. To each their own.

Moved forward last year -- from 6500 to 6100. It took me more than a few rounds to score well. I seemed to be trying to drive way too far in order to take advantage of the shorter holes. Once I found that playing short of trouble is the way to go, even if it means avoiding the temptation of a nearly drivable par 4, scoring evened out and improved. And it is much more fun for the shorter hitters in my regular group because now they need to use strategy off some tees -- sometimes driver is too much or 3-wood is too little.

As to pace of play, our five par 3's going from 210-185 to 185-155 really speeds up play. The course always plays windy, and we used to be looking for someone's ball on nearly every par 3 (a 185 yard shot with strong winds is going to fired trouble much of the time). Now, most times we know where everyone is even if it is not on the green.

[sean_miller]

  rustyredcab said:

Originally Posted by rustyredcab

. . . much more fun for the shorter hitters . . .

Good for them - I fully support forward tees for all the shorter hitters!!

[meenman]

  Double Bogey said:

Originally Posted by Double Bogey

but it is not any faster.  From my perspective most time is spent either looking for balls, not being ready to play, or putting.  Teeing it forward is not going to change that.  It will just allow the player to possibly hit a couple less shots, not necessarily better ones.

It is faster, and some of the long hitters are the ones that need to move up just to get that driver out of their hands - they are the reason there is so much ball searching.

In my normal foursome, our index's range from 16-27. One of the higher HC guys is generally the masher. Unfortunately it gets old looking for his ball for 5 minutes on 9-10 holes, the rest of us are generally on/near the fairway and if the other guys put it OB, it is far enough OB that there is no need to look for the ball.

The 3 of us have tried to get the other to move up to the *senior* tees occasionally (with us going up there with him) but he is the only one that refuses. If he was forced to club down a bit the ball searching would end.

I am starting to think that he enjoys his high HC for the skins he wins getting 2 strokes on par 3s.

[Phil McGleno]

You're the idiot exception that proves the rule then. Play the proper tees. You'll have more fun I encourage my students - especially my better players - to play way up on occasion. They get to work on their course management, they get to work on their scoring clubs, they get more comfortable being farther under par than normal, and on. [quote name="sean_miller" url="/t/59452/play-the-correct-tee/72#post_728718"] I found I swung too hard from the [U]forward[/U] tees trying to drive greens and carry hazards I have no business trying to carry. To each their own. [/quote]