David Graham thinks equipment rules should be revisited

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by jamo

Not quite sure the point he is making about wedges. Do people want to outlaw 60* wedges (the club Tiger used on that chip-in)? Or 64* wedges (the highest club in Phil's bag)?

Or am I missing something?

Good, it wasn't just me.  He was utterly incoherent when talking about wedges - at least the way it was quoted.

[Wallstreet]

From the quote I don't really get this guy's point.  I see amateurs all the time with more than 14 clubs.  Like someone said earlier..no one cares as long as they aren't playing for money or in a tourney.  And the loft thing I don't think is an issue is it?  Phil has a 64 degree.  No reason to have different rules for amateurs and pros.  I think one of the obsessions within golf (for some) is to use the same clubs and balls, and wear the same things as pro's.  I think the club amount and technology is just fine the way it is.  I don't see any problem.

[onlybereaved]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

Not quite sure the point he is making about wedges. Do people want to outlaw 60* wedges (the club Tiger used on that chip-in)? Or 64* wedges (the highest club in Phil's bag)?

Or am I missing something?

Good, it wasn't just me.  He was utterly incoherent when talking about wedges - at least the way it was quoted.

Same here.  I still don't understand.

[kathybhylton]

Originally Posted by Beachcomber

I think 14 clubs are plenty.  There is no reason for a change IMO... Plus, golf bags are too heavy with 14 clubs as is.

I agree. What's the use of changing it? We're pretty much okay with what we can do.

[TN94z]

I really don't see the confusion in the quote at all.  From what I read, he is stating the enjoyment of the game is the main thing.  Amateurs who are limited to a smaller number of clubs likely wouldn't get as much enjoyment and fun out of the game as they would if they had more clubs to choose from. He is saying that this fun (for amateurs I suppose) comes from the clubs that they hit and the shots those clubs produce, so the more clubs to choose from in their bag, the more fun they can potentially have.

I also read that he is saying that pro's SHOULD have the higher lofted clubs as these shots have lead to excitement and fun for the viewer watching and helps keep the viewers' attention.  Evidently, people have said that these lofted clubs should not be allowed in the pro's and he is making a case that they help the game more than anything.

[zeg]

That's total crap.

I carry 14 clubs because I can, but rarely use more than 10 or maybe 12 in a given round. I don't think I've ever once thought, "Gosh, if only I had a few more clubs to choose from I'd really enjoy this round more." If anything, I think, "If I carried half as many clubs I'd have a lot less weight to carry and I'd shoot the same score." That would certainly improve my enjoyment...

It's even less sensible for the pros. Part of the enjoyment of watching is knowing the sort of skill they have, and they seem to do just fine making impossible shots with just about any club you put in their hands. If you decide to take away the 64°, I'd put down significant money that nobody can tell the difference from watching the tournaments. (Of course, I don't see the reason to take away the 64°)

[TN94z]

He is not stating the case for increasing clubs in the professional bag.  This is just about the amateurs.  And while I agree with what most are saying here, the majority of amateurs I have seen at the course carry more than 14 clubs.  They usually have all your normal irons, many wedges (because they see the pros hitting all these different wedges and they want them in their bags), a couple different woods, and sometimes more than 1 driver.

In my opinion, the only time the rules really count is in a tournament.  "Most" of the amateurs I have seen in tournaments are already to the level where this doesn't apply anyway.  It seems to me that this mainly applies for your amateurs that are just beginning the game or just go out and play it for fun.  Those are the ones that want all of the clubs.  And in these situations, rules don't apply anyway...unless their friends bring it up.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by TN94z

I really don't see the confusion in the quote at all.  From what I read, he is stating the enjoyment of the game is the main thing.  Amateurs who are limited to a smaller number of clubs likely wouldn't get as much enjoyment and fun out of the game as they would if they had more clubs to choose from. He is saying that this fun (for amateurs I suppose) comes from the clubs that they hit and the shots those clubs produce, so the more clubs to choose from in their bag, the more fun they can potentially have.

I also read that he is saying that pro's SHOULD have the higher lofted clubs as these shots have lead to excitement and fun for the viewer watching and helps keep the viewers' attention.  Evidently, people have said that these lofted clubs should not be allowed in the pro's and he is making a case that they help the game more than anything.

Oh yeah!  I think it's a blast to watch a 25 handicapper skull his 64° Mickelson signature K-mart wedge across the green then chunk it 3 times trying to flop a recovery up to a tight back pin on a downhill slope.  Nothing in my life is as much fun as that.

Originally Posted by TN94z

He is not stating the case for increasing clubs in the professional bag.  This is just about the amateurs.  And while I agree with what most are saying here, the majority of amateurs I have seen at the course carry more than 14 clubs.  They usually have all your normal irons, many wedges (because they see the pros hitting all these different wedges and they want them in their bags), a couple different woods, and sometimes more than 1 driver.

In my opinion, the only time the rules really count is in a tournament.  "Most" of the amateurs I have seen in tournaments are already to the level where this doesn't apply anyway.  It seems to me that this mainly applies for your amateurs that are just beginning the game or just go out and play it for fun.  Those are the ones that want all of the clubs.  And in these situations, rules don't apply anyway...unless their friends bring it up.

You certainly play with a different crowd from me then.  I can't think of the last time I saw anyone playing with more than 14 clubs unless he was maybe demoing a new driver or something - just a one time deal.  All you have to do is watch the typical high handicapper to realize that he is mostly confused about what do do with a basic set, much less add to his dilemma by giving him more difficult decisions to make.

[TN94z]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Oh yeah!  I think it's a blast to watch a 25 handicapper skull his 64° Mickelson signature K-mart wedge across the green then chunk it 3 times trying to flop a recovery up to a tight back pin on a downhill slope.  Nothing in my life is as much fun as that.

I agree totally.  I'm just saying that I believe that's the only crowd the article applies to.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I can't think of the last time I saw anyone playing with more than 14 clubs unless he was maybe demoing a new driver or something - just a one time deal.

Same here - most players at my course who use bags with 14 slots always seem to have at least a couple open ones.

[ndb8fxe]

I guess I'll be the first one.  I'd like to carry an extra club.  I carry 14 now, but I'd love to have an extra.  Yes I know I can choke down to fill the gap, but I often find myself wishing I could use the rescue club that I had to leave in the garage.

[newtogolf]

As a high handicapper I think more clubs is a mistake even though some days I had wished I brought different clubs than I did.  Most high handicappers can't be certain of their distances, especially with their lower lofted clubs.  Adding more clubs would give us more options but I doubt anyones game would improve overall.  I'm trying to teach myself to make different shots and distances with my PW.

Increasing number of clubs would be great for manufacturers though, then you'll be able to carry an R11s and a RBZ driver or 910 D2 and D3.  We'd see 2 driver bags popping up everywhere.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by ndb8fxe

I guess I'll be the first one.  I'd like to carry an extra club.  I carry 14 now, but I'd love to have an extra.  Yes I know I can choke down to fill the gap, but I often find myself wishing I could use the rescue club that I had to leave in the garage.

I know what you're saying, but I'm more proud of making a shot than I am of just picking another club.  I like it that I can pick up an 8 iron and use it for a half dozen different types of shots.  If I had unlimited clubs available, I might never have been inspired to learn those optional shots.

[sean_miller]

My brother takes great pride in carrying a 1/2 set of clubs and beating me. He also looks down his nose at people who have to don a special golfing outfit and carry a rule book just to chase a ball around for a few holes. He's an odd duck.

[Divot Master]

I would be in favor of increasing the number of clubs for amateurs, but only if you carry your bag and finish in 4 hours or less.

[saevel25]

For Pro's i would like to see the number of clubs lowerd to 12, this would make an interesting decision, do we want more wedges or more long irons. Because some holes now become very interesting on the 2nd shot.

I also like decreasing the number of cc's on a driver to something like less than 420, and limit the COR on the driver a bit to. Lets say we bring the average back down a bit, like 10 yards less. Thats one club up for each shot played, that sounds good.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Divot Master

I would be in favor of increasing the number of clubs for amateurs, but only if you carry your bag and finish in 4 hours or less.

What if the PGA Tour penalized players with slow times by pulling clubs instead of adding strokes?!?

[Divot Master]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

What if the PGA Tour penalized players with slow times by pulling clubs instead of adding strokes?!?

Great idea, after all the clubs are gone they can finish their rounds with a foot mashie :)