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So you're powering the chip/pitch by dropping your hands...........but why do you want to use the big turn at impact? I would have thought that it could complicate your initial direction if you don't time it right.  yeah, nice threads too! a3_biggrin.gif

I was hitting these shots really well and then started to stop pivoting and getting too armsy, disaster, lots of stabby shots that just dribbled a few feet or even screamers that hit my back yard fence! Once I remembered to just pivot thru the shot it all came back to the goodness. The pivot part is pretty key and non-negotiable in my experience.

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Played yesterday afternoon and am really happy with how I hit the ball.  The only real mishit of the round was a dead pull - with a 6 iron no less - on the tee of a short and quirky par 4.  The other two missed fairways were just slight pushes with the driver.  (Ironically, the worst miss with the driver was on 18, where I push-cut one into the mountain, but got a luck kick back into the fairway.)  Also, for the most part am really happy with most of my decision making as well.  Hit 4 iron instead of driver 7 times.  Only hit driver 6 times.

Last weekend Erik made a comment to me while we were playing about "my one swing thought" and I was kind of embarrassed to realize I didn't really have one.  At the range since then I discovered that if I concentrated on a smooth tempo with my driver, I seemed to hit it a lot better.  So that is now my current swing thought when I'm on the tee ... smooth tempo.

If I am going to keep swinging like this, I think the next thing on my to-do list is to eliminate sloppy, stupid mistakes.  Two stupid 3-putt bogeys, a botched 75 yard pitch on the first par 5, and a virtual 3-putt from the fringe on number 2 are all things that really should not happen.  There's no reason why this 80 couldn't have been a 76, or even less.

Also very excited to see the handicap dropping and dropping rapidly.  It was 9.6 on March 1, and if I don't play anymore in the next week and a half it will be 8.0 on May 1.  I'm playing with house money right now because not only is it going down, but most of my 10 best are front loaded so all the stuff that's dropping off the end of the card is crap anyway.

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Good work, Drew... good to see things coming around for you. The two of us are going to be dangerous at the next outing.

Tristan Hilton

My Equipment: 
PXG 0211 Driver (Diamana S+ 60; 10.5°) · PXG 0211 FWs (Diamana S+ 60; 15° and 21°) · PXG 0211 Hybrids (MMT 80; 22°, 25°, and 28°) · PXG 0311P Gen 2 Irons (SteelFiber i95; 7-PW) · Edel Wedges (KBS Hi-Rev; 50°, 55°, 60°) · Edel Classic Blade Putter (32") · Vice Pro or Maxfli Tour · Pinned Prism Rangefinder · Star Grips · Flightscope Mevo · TRUE Linkswear Shoes · Sun Mountain C130S Bag

On my MacBook Pro:
Analyzr Pro

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Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

Good work, Drew... good to see things coming around for you. The two of us are going to be dangerous at the next outing.

Thanks, you too!  (Your post is what prompted mine) We're going to have to lobby Mike to put us on a team together this time and we'll show them all who's boss!!!

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristanhilton85

Good work, Drew... good to see things coming around for you. The two of us are going to be dangerous at the next outing.

Thanks, you too!  (Your post is what prompted mine)   We're going to have to lobby Mike to put us on a team together this time and we'll show them all who's boss!!!

I like it...

Tristan Hilton

My Equipment: 
PXG 0211 Driver (Diamana S+ 60; 10.5°) · PXG 0211 FWs (Diamana S+ 60; 15° and 21°) · PXG 0211 Hybrids (MMT 80; 22°, 25°, and 28°) · PXG 0311P Gen 2 Irons (SteelFiber i95; 7-PW) · Edel Wedges (KBS Hi-Rev; 50°, 55°, 60°) · Edel Classic Blade Putter (32") · Vice Pro or Maxfli Tour · Pinned Prism Rangefinder · Star Grips · Flightscope Mevo · TRUE Linkswear Shoes · Sun Mountain C130S Bag

On my MacBook Pro:
Analyzr Pro

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And here are my latest swing videos.  These are both drivers from Tuesday (4/16).  Still have a lot (a lot) of ways to go to keep that elbow from flying around behind me.  In fact, I think my next golf related purchase is going to be a pipoe!  Anyways, here they are ...

PS ... you probably can't tell but I am doing the 'toes up' drill in these swings.  The results of both were solid pushes (pretty typical).

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Chip in on the 17th?

Driver: 10.5* callaway Razr Hawk Tour - 350 yards(usually into the wind, it can be windy here. at least 400 with a little wind behind me)

Hybrids: 2 and 3 callaway Hybrid razr tour (312 and 287 respectively)

Irons: 3i-10i callaway forged standard length(278, 263, 250, 235, 221, 213, 201, 190)

Wedges: callaway jaws cc 52* 12 approach, 56* 16 sand, 60* 13 lob (0-185)

Odyssey Black tour #9 putter(5 ft, i'm always at least within 5 feet on my approach shot)

I wonder who on this forum is a PGA tour pro, disguised as a normal player.. 

2013: play in the US amateur qualifier

 


Originally Posted by onephenom

Chip in on the 17th?

Nope, a putt from about 8 feet beyond the green.

This course is very much what I imagine links courses to be like.  There are no defined fairways and rough.  If you are not in the hazards or bunkers, you are on very closely mown grass.  And there are a lot of holes clearly designed such that if you wanted to play low running shots, you could.  Here's a pic of 17 (from their website - that's not me ;)):

I went 4-iron, 6-iron to just behind the green back left and the pin was back left.

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Nope, a putt from about 8 feet beyond the green. This course is very much what I imagine links courses to be like.  There are no defined fairways and rough.  If you are not in the hazards or bunkers, you are on very closely mown grass.  And there are a lot of holes clearly designed such that if you wanted to play low running shots, you could.  Here's a pic of 17 (from their website - that's not me ;)): [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/73414/] [/URL] I went 4-iron, 6-iron to just behind the green back left and the pin was back left. :-)

Nice! Beautiful course too. Looks like you're improving, keep up the good work.

Driver: 10.5* callaway Razr Hawk Tour - 350 yards(usually into the wind, it can be windy here. at least 400 with a little wind behind me)

Hybrids: 2 and 3 callaway Hybrid razr tour (312 and 287 respectively)

Irons: 3i-10i callaway forged standard length(278, 263, 250, 235, 221, 213, 201, 190)

Wedges: callaway jaws cc 52* 12 approach, 56* 16 sand, 60* 13 lob (0-185)

Odyssey Black tour #9 putter(5 ft, i'm always at least within 5 feet on my approach shot)

I wonder who on this forum is a PGA tour pro, disguised as a normal player.. 

2013: play in the US amateur qualifier

 


  • Moderator
Originally Posted by Golfingdad

In fact, I think my next golf related purchase is going to be a pipoe!  Anyways, here they are ...

http://thesandtrap.com/b/training/pipoe_review

Mike McLoughlin

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  • 3 weeks later...

My latest lesson from Evolvr included some reminders on slowing down during practice, so I am trying to hold the positions for longer periods to help ingrain the feel.  I am very happy with what my A4 looks like during the practice/shadow swings.  (Granted, to a lot of people that might not mean much, but for me, its confidence inspiring just to know that I am capable of reaching that position)  Once I can get that elbow in position on a real swing, it'll go a long way towards shallowing out the shaft on the first part of the downswing and improving my Key #4. :)

Also, FWIW, these were both really solid shots, albeit with a bit of unintended cut on them. ;)

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*Polite Applause*

Thats a beautiful swing GD. I see how you keep that 90 degree angle. I am still trying to work on getting that way.

Was successful at the range for a bit, and just lost it.

That swing of yours look so smooth and fluid . Makes me green with envy!! :)  ;)

"Luck is where opportunity meets preparation.."


Originally Posted by tstrike34

*Polite Applause*

Thats a beautiful swing GD. I see how you keep that 90 degree angle. I am still trying to work on getting that way.

Was successful at the range for a bit, and just lost it.

That swing of yours look so smooth and fluid. Makes me green with envy!! :)  ;)

Thanks tstrike!  I'm by no means where I want to be but I'm pretty happy with my progress so far!  You keep at it, and you'll get there too!  And to be fair, I've been playing for a long time, and I seem to remember you saying that you started fairly recently.

Speaking of envy ... I wish I had your garage setup! :)  Would save me a lot of money ;)

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  • Moderator
Originally Posted by Golfingdad

My latest lesson from Evolvr included some reminders on slowing down during practice, so I am trying to hold the positions for longer periods to help ingrain the feel.  I am very happy with what my A4 looks like during the practice/shadow swings.  (Granted, to a lot of people that might not mean much, but for me, its confidence inspiring just to know that I am capable of reaching that position)  Once I can get that elbow in position on a real swing, it'll go a long way towards shallowing out the shaft on the first part of the downswing and improving my Key #4. :)

Also, FWIW, these were both really solid shots, albeit with a bit of unintended cut on them. ;)

Yep better, next step with the practice swings is to include the pivot stuff with the arm rehearsals.  So as you turn back you're doing your right arm feel.  Little bit too much stretch, in relation to the amount of turn, from A1-3, I think James talked about this in his last Evolvr.  That ties into the elbow stuff.  Kick in too much stretch, rear elbow will be more prone to slide behind me.  Nice job with the camera angels btw

Pretty good here.  Cuts just coming from the elbows moving further away from each other from A4-5, right elbow staying too high, shaft too steep, effecting the left wrist and how the pressure in the feet works.  Good thing is contact is better, you can play a little cut on the course ;-)

Mike McLoughlin

Check out my friends on Evolvr!
Follow The Sand Trap on Twitter!  and on Facebook
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  • 1 month later...

Latest videos ...

So while I have certainly not perfected my elbow positions by any means, I have moved to a few other priority items in the last couple of lessons.

Two lessons ago, I started working on the downswing.  Specifically, trying to keep left shoulder from going up and out, and getting the arms to start down independently of the shoulders.  It's a different feel for sure, but I'm doing a lot of slow practice swings (partial, sort of "pump drill" type swings) to try and get the feel for that left shoulder staying down.

For my most recent lesson, James has my focusing on the pressure points in my feet in the downswing, specifically the front foot.  I tend to roll that foot over and get a lot of weight on the outside of the foot, and I am consciously trying to keep it flat and feel it stay planted throughout the downswing.  Oddly enough, when I think of nothing else but that foot, lately I have been hitting some darn good shots, and most of them have been drawing.  :)

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It looks like the club gets a little inside your hands in the backswing? (1st swing) Other than that, it's a solid looking golf swing.


By the way ... public props to Cipher for teaching me how to splice together videos and put them in slo-mo!!!!  Thank you, sir ... now go practice for your big tourney!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by BostonBrew

It looks like the club gets a little inside your hands in the backswing? (1st swing) Other than that, it's a solid looking golf swing.

Yeah, I think you are right.  It wasn't that many lessons ago that I was given the idea (by Mike, no less) to try and feel like I'm picking the club straight up as I go back.  When I do that it keeps the club from getting too deep, but as you obviously noticed, it's not ingrained yet because if I'm not thinking about it, I'm not doing it. :)

And thank you!

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  • 4 weeks later...

I friggin' hate this game!!!  Here is my scorecard from last Thursday ...

I couldn't do anything right.  It was so frustrating.  Thoughts start lingering in my head ... perhaps I should stop taking it seriously, perhaps I should stop taking lessons, perhaps I should just quit altogether (my previous round a week earlier at the same course was an 89, so I was already a bit annoyed at myself)  And to top it all off, I am trying to get ready for a tournament on Sunday.  This is not going to go well ....

Did I mention ...

I friggin love this game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Here is my scorecard from yesterday's tournament ...

In stark contrast to my last two rounds ... I couldn't really do anything wrong yesterday.  I realize I only "hit" 5 fairways, but that is a bit misleading because the fairways are narrow at this course, the "rough" is short, and I was never far enough off the fairway to not have a shot at the green.  And even though I missed 10 greens, I was never too far off there.  Even though I was playing the course for the first time, I was missing in all the right spots, because my up and downs were never terribly difficult.  I started on #10, so I actually made it to the 14th hole at even par.  (I think part of the reason for my "collapse" is a bit of an irrational fear of being labeled as a sandbagger, but thats another story).  PS:  I won my division by 2 shots!

Anyways ... I friggin' love this game!!!!

  • Upvote 3
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    • I'm not an "official" instructor but I've been helping people for a few years now. I find that most beginners never get taught a proper concept of how the swing works. I also find that most people need a better understanding of what the arms and hands do before even working on the grip or the rest of the body. This is because what your concept of how the arms work through the downswing will dictate how strong or weak your grip must be. And if your arms work correctly then you can get away with a lot of variation in the lower body and still hit the ball decently. This will be long by the way... now...I get technical because...well...if you're writing it, you have to make it understandable. So let's understand the swing structure of the left or lead arm. The clubhead is controlled by the left hand, the left hand is controlled by the left wrist which is made up of the two bones of the forearm; the ulna closest to the pinky finger and the radius closest to the thumb. The forearm is attached to but can work independently of the humorous or upper arm which ends at the shoulder joint. That's the structure you are working with. Now how each section of that structure can work in different ways so let's talk about them starting at the upper arm. You may have heard people use the term "external shoulder rotation." It's usually used in reference to the right arm but that's okay you need to understand it in the left arm as well. First off...that's not a correct term. The shoulder is a complex structure of three bones; the clavicle in the upper chest/neck area, the scapula or shoulder blade that glides across the back and the end of the humorous bone that is the upper arm. So when you hear that term what they really are saying is "external rotation of the humerus." A simple way to understand this is to think about arm wrestling. If you are arm wresting someone with your elbow on a table you are trying to force your opponents arm into external rotation while your upper arm would be internally rotating. If you are losing the wrestling match you will find that while your elbow stays in place, your forearm and hand will be pushed back behind the elbow as your humerus externally rotates. So in the golf swing we don't want to be the winner of the arm wrestling match... at any point in time! Both upper arms need to externally rotate. The right upper arm externally rotates in the backswing and stays in that position through impact or for some people just before but very close to impact. The left arm must externally rotate in the downswing from impact through the finish. Some people choose to set-up with both upper arms externally rotated...think elbows pointed at the hips or biceps up. Others will start with just the right arm in this position...some people describe it as the "giving blood" position. Others start with both elbows internally rotated...biceps facing inward toward each other. You can set-up whichever way feels best to you but in your backswing and downswing the upper arms MUST externally rotate. Now back to the left arm...with which you should try to control the swing...and the forearm. The forearm is where most people get in trouble because it can rotate left or right no matter which orientation your upper arm is in...try it...it's just how the forearm is structured to work. And this is where you MUST make the decision as to how you want the forearms to work in order to choose how strong or weak your grip must be. Ben Hogan in his book 5 Lessons uses the terms supination and pronation. To illustrate it simply grab a club in your left hand and hold it out in front of you. Rotate your forearm to where your knuckles point to the sky (this is pronation) and then rotate your forearm the other way so that your knuckles point to the ground (this is supination). When your lead forearm is in pronation (knuckles up) the ulna will be on the left side of the radius. In supination (knuckles down the ulna rotates under the radius and the radius is now on the left side of the ulna. Very important that you relate this to the position of the ulna. At the top of the backswing you should be in a position where you feel that the knuckles of the left hand are pointed to the sky. As you rotate your body open and your chest pulls your arms down and into impact you will need to be aware that your ulna stays on the left side of the radius as long as possible. This is the position instructors are trying to have you achieve by pulling the butt of the club into an invisible wall past your left leg while maintaining the 90 degree angle formed by the shaft and your forearm. You've probably seen or heard of that drill as we all have over the years. Now here is the IMPORTANT part that no one seems to ever speak of...what happens from there!?! From that position...ulna on the left side of the radius, shaft and the forearm at a 90 degree angle, hands directly over the ball...you have two choices. 1) You can keep the ulna traveling toward the target on the left side of the radius and only release (unhinge) the wrists to lower the clubhead down into the ball or 2) while you unhinge your left wrist you can rotate your left forearm from the pronated position (knuckles up) to the supinated position (knuckles down) and let the ulna rotate under and eventually to the right side of the radius. If you choose to release the club with method 1 you will need a strong grip. The clubface will stay stable and square to the target throughout the swing but you probably will lose distance and have a very spinny ball flight. If you choose to release the club with method 2 you will probably require a much weaker grip as the clubhead will be less stable as it closes down coming into impact. This method requires more timing but results in more power through impact and usually more distance. You may also hook the ball if you start with too strong of a grip or a closed clubface at address. Method 2 is what most pros use but not all. Method 1 is what causes most people to hit weak, spinny slices and requires an unusually strong grip because with method 1 the left forearm has a tendency to open more coming into impact where the ulna stays in front of the radius too long.    Here's the catch...you need to learn both releases. Release 1 is how you want to use your wedges when you want to make sure the bounce interacts with the turf or if you need to hit a cut from left to right around a tree. You'll get more height and more spin with release 1. Release 2 will let the leading edge tear through the turf taking a nice crisp divot and can be used to hook a ball from right to left. Congratulations to anyone that read through all of this! I believe that once your brain understands precisely how it needs to control the different parts of your body it can do it repetitively on command. Your swing will repeat and not fall apart from day to day. Learn how you want to use your forearms and you can choose your grip and clubface position at address. Either method will work and both methods are used by the best players in the world for different shots.
    • Day 330 - Mostly just partial swings today, so I could really focus on exaggerating my hips towards the target in my finish. 
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