How many of you "fluff" your ball or play 6"/winter rules all the time?

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

There is clearly a misconception as to what constitutes GUR.  GUR (part of the abnormal ground rule as it's called in Rule 25) isn't whatever you want it to be.  GUR is what is marked as GUR.  If it's not marked, then it's just "golf course".  Casual water is part of the abnormal ground rule, and it's clearly defined in the rules.  The player can determine for himself whether or not his ball lies in casual water by following the definition.  GUR can't really be defined so it must be marked in some way.

Isn't there also the stipulation in the rules that states that debris piled for removal is to be considered GUR?  While not clearly marked, it is considered GUR.  However, grass clippings and/or aeration plugs are not part of the stipulation.

[nevets88]

I've been playing for awhile and I never heard of the term fluff. I see people give themselves a better lie all the time but I play it as it lies. It'll probably hurt your score, but you learn more. I'm also curious to see how the ball will react to weird lies.

And I prefer a tight lie over "fluff". There's more of a chance you might catch it higher in the clubface. For some reason, if my ball is higher because of a tee, I don't feel the same way that I do when I'm over a fluffy lie.

[LovinItAll]

My regular groups play the ball down all the time, but if some random person I'm playing with wants to roll it, I don't care. If it makes the game more fun for them, go for it....we just won't be gambling. Btw, no one is going to go from shooting 80 to even par by rolling/fluffing the ball (all foot wedges aside).

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Paradox

This type of thread isn't much different from all the "I average 300 off the tee" threads.  People want to be seen as righteous and perfect.

No some of us just prefer to play golf.  And if you can believe the poll, we are in the vast majority.

Originally Posted by gwlee7

Isn't there also the stipulation in the rules that states that debris piled for removal is to be considered GUR?  While not clearly marked, it is considered GUR.  However, grass clippings and/or aeration plugs are not part of the stipulation.

Yes, but a patch of bare ground isn't "piled for removal".  Jut as a patch of soft ground isn't casual water if liquid doesn't at least bubble up around your feet when you take your stance.

[gwlee7]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Yes, but a patch of bare ground isn't "piled for removal".  Jut as a patch of soft ground isn't casual water if liquid doesn't at least bubble up around your feet when you take your stance.

You and I would get along just fine.  When people I am playing with say "are we playing the root rule since I don't want to damage my club?" I'll say "sure it's called taking an unplayable".

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No some of us just prefer to play golf.  And if you can believe the poll, we are in the vast majority.

Yes, but a patch of bare ground isn't "piled for removal".  Jut as a patch of soft ground isn't casual water if liquid doesn't at least bubble up around your feet when you take your stance.

my point wasn't that people prefer to play golf or not..my point was that people act so disgusted by what someone else does when it doesn't effect said person in any way.  EVERYONE has broken a rule of golf at some point or another...to act like doing so is a sin is just ridiculous.

If I'm not playing you for money...I don't care if you decide to pick up your ball and throw it down the fairway.  I just don't care what other people do as long as they enjoy themselves.  Put money up, and we play by the rules, no gimmies unless you are conceding a hole in skins, and play it as it lies.

[Sonny217]

Who's the ONE person who voted "Always"?  I didn't know my father was on this forum........

[LovinItAll]

my point wasn't that people prefer to play golf or not..my point was that people act so disgusted by what someone else does when it doesn't effect said person in any way.  EVERYONE has broken a rule of golf at some point or another...to act like doing so is a sin is just ridiculous.  If I'm not playing you for money...I don't care if you decide to pick up your ball and throw it down the fairway.  [b]I just don't care what other people do as long as they enjoy themselves. [/b] Put money up, and we play by the rules, no gimmies unless you are conceding a hole in skins, and play it as it lies.

Exactly. And to say that people who move the ball aren't playing 'golf' is wrong, too. They shouldn't be posting scores for official handicap purposes, but as long as they aren't trying to cheat anyone, whatever makes them happiest on the course is the game they should be playing. For me, playing by the rules might lead to some disappointing moments, but I wouldn't enjoy the experience as much if I fudged the rules.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Paradox

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No some of us just prefer to play golf.  And if you can believe the poll, we are in the vast majority.

Yes, but a patch of bare ground isn't "piled for removal".  Jut as a patch of soft ground isn't casual water if liquid doesn't at least bubble up around your feet when you take your stance.

my point wasn't that people prefer to play golf or not..my point was that people act so disgusted by what someone else does when it doesn't effect said person in any way.  EVERYONE has broken a rule of golf at some point or another...to act like doing so is a sin is just ridiculous.

If I'm not playing you for money...I don't care if you decide to pick up your ball and throw it down the fairway.  I just don't care what other people do as long as they enjoy themselves.  Put money up, and we play by the rules, no gimmies unless you are conceding a hole in skins, and play it as it lies.

I wouldn't care what they did if they'd stop writing down scores on the official scorecard. Even worse when they aske me what I scored for a comparison. I feel like telling my one friend, "We're playing different games so who cares what I shot?" It reminds me of when little kids play a sport with adults and you let them score and everybody cheers - yay, Joey score a goal!!! Now everbody pretend Joey was really playing so we can all get back to the game.

[Chief Broom]

I don't have a problem comparing my scores played down in league play to those who routinely roll the ball and take adjustments (hand wedge back into the fairway).  We all have to pull our own points and I know that those guy's point tallies include their particular playing habits, so it all evens out.  Club and state sanctioned play where adhering to the rules of golf is expected is where I draw the line at allowing liberties (to the best of my knowledge) with said rules of golf, but one of the things I enjoy about these formats is that everyone in the foursome understands this and is working together to make sure we all play within the rules.  The rules of golf are complicated and at times it takes a foursome of knowledgeable guys to figure out how to proceed.  The fact that I do my best to follow the rules even in causal play is a choice I make to help me when I am playing under conditions where adhering to the rules is required.  But in my opinion the rules of golf are a bit onerous, especially for the average golfer, and I don't mind when guys play in a fashion that maximizes their enjoyment of the game.  Now if I'm playing with someone who "beats" me while taking extreme liberties with the rules and then feels the need to rub in their victory I'll say something about how following the rules could have effected that outcome, but honestly every guy I've ever played with who takes such liberties understood that we were playing different games.  Let's face it would anyone who takes mulligans, hand wedges back in play, picks up and still records a score, etc. actually compare their score to someone who does none of that and cards a legitimate number at the end of a round?  I've never seen that happen and I've played with a bunch of different folks over the years.  What I have seen are buddies who take varing degrees of liberties and then feel that one guy crossed the line.  I do agree it's all or nothing, but like I said it's obvious to even the most casual observer when one guy is playing the ball down and the other is just out to have a good time.  I say let folks have a good time and after you've played together a few times I bet at some point they will begin to ask you questions about how they can start following the rules and play the game as it is intended to be played.  I've found that when leading by example you can best guide people to your way of thinking.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

I don't have a problem comparing my scores played down in league play to those who routinely roll the ball and take adjustments (hand wedge back into the fairway).  We all have to pull our own points and I know that those guy's point tallies include their particular playing habits, so it all evens out.  Club and state sanctioned play where adhering to the rules of golf is expected is where I draw the line at allowing liberties (to the best of my knowledge) with said rules of golf, but one of the things I enjoy about these formats is that everyone in the foursome understands this and is working together to make sure we all play within the rules.  The rules of golf are complicated and at times it takes a foursome of knowledgeable guys to figure out how to proceed.  The fact that I do my best to follow the rules even in causal play is a choice I make to help me when I am playing under conditions where adhering to the rules is required.  But in my opinion the rules of golf are a bit onerous, especially for the average golfer, and I don't mind when guys play in a fashion that maximizes their enjoyment of the game.  Now if I'm playing with someone who "beats" me while taking extreme liberties with the rules and then feels the need to rub in their victory I'll say something about how following the rules could have effected that outcome, but honestly every guy I've ever played with who takes such liberties understood that we were playing different games.  Let's face it would anyone who takes mulligans, hand wedges back in play, picks up and still records a score, etc. actually compare their score to someone who does none of that and cards a legitimate number at the end of a round?  I've never seen that happen and I've played with a bunch of different folks over the years.  What I have seen are buddies who take varing degrees of liberties and then feel that one guy crossed the line.  I do agree it's all or nothing, but like I said it's obvious to even the most casual observer when one guy is playing the ball down and the other is just out to have a good time.  I say let folks have a good time and after you've played together a few times I bet at some point they will begin to ask you questions about how they can start following the rules and play the game as it is intended to be played.  I've found that when leading by example you can best guide people to your way of thinking.

No idea what you're talking about with pulling of points thing. I have seen people cheat, knowingly or otherwise, then add up those fabricated scores and brag about it. Seen guys take 8 whacks and write down a 5. I seen guys in scrambles do things that put the group at a crossroad - we took the high road and the person pouted and went along for the ride. Some guys can't accept their shortcomings and if you haven't seen it in person, then great, but based on that sentence I bolded, I'm not sure I'd have any idea what game you guys play either.

[Spyder]

I've seen people duff a shot 5 feet and then not count it as well, as if it never happened. Coming back to the cart with me and I hear "Five...". Five my ass man, I saw you shank your driver, duff your 7i with 5 feet of hop n' roll, land short of the green in 3 and then 3 putt.

The worst I have ever seen is a guy I know that religiously believes he's driving the ball 300+ and first locates my ball, then immediately assumes he is several tens of yards further than me. When he can't find his ball, or listen to me when I tell him that he rolled OB, he immediately assumes the group ahead of us took his ball. Or if he hits it towards an adjacent fairway, that group stole his ball and he drops with no penalty.

In my opinion, you're only hurting yourself if you shave strokes and don't play down, but I really don't care what you do in the end. I enjoy playing the ball down and following the rules to the best of my knowledge. I'm also invited to more tournaments and scrambles by doing so because it does get noticed, regardless of whether you care or not.

It's up to the player in the end, but like I said and many others have said; feel free to play Golf however you deem appropriate/entertaining . Just make sure that if you lay down cash, you're prepared to be scrutinized. I clearly do not know all of the rules of golf, but I also think common sense goes a very long way. Often times, if I knew the rules to a "T", I would be benefited from them more than penalized. I'm sure I've hit from areas, or taken strokes, when I shouldn't have or didn't have to. Likewise, I'm sure I've broken my share of rules unknowingly.

To summarize, I really don't care how anyone else plays the game as long as it's not for cash and as long as they're not throwing their score around or claiming handicaps that aren't legit.

[stogiesnbogies]

I play at a municipal course and the "fairway" and greens conditions are dubious at best....not to mention debris hither and yon....so we always play "lift, clean and place golf"  and have a steadfast rule that if you hit a fairway or green you have the right to hit/putt upon grass.    And I won't even begin to discuss sand in bunkers-...as in I have a sand wedge but not a concrete wedge....  : )

For example if you'er on the green but there's bare ground either under your ball or on the line of your putt you may move it -no closer to the hole but on a grass line...

fortunately this condition is not always the case but there are certain holes during certain times of year...and there's always some holes like this ...thus the year round lift clean and place rule...which I understand is normally used on the LPGA tour?

[stogiesnbogies]

I agree with ya Spyder....there is a difference between outright cheating as you describe ..and the "club rules" my partners employ for ALL of us in order to contend fairly with bad course maintenance...as is so often the case at my muni.

[ThominOH]

I prefer to play it down.. Not only is that the rule, but I also find I play better as well.. Why is that?  Because I find myself concentrating harder on the swing knowing I have a tricky lie.. Too many times when you think you have a cake lie, you end up shanking the shot because of lack of concentration.. The only time I fluff or move the ball is when unusual ground conditions warrant it, such as a fairway lined with goose droppings and your ball is tee'd up on one.. LOL

[Wisguy]

The only time I will move my ball without penalty arguably outside the rules is when it lands in an inexcusable mess of a bare patch on a fairway that should be marked GUR but the course was no more industrious with marking the course than it was in seeing that it was groomed and prepared for play properly.   I figure that if I hit a good shot, I shouldn't be penalized because the course isn't maintained properly.

I've got a friend who is a significantly better golfer than me who "fudges" and "fiddles" with his ball on second and subsequent shots even when it's the middle of the summer.  There are times when he's announced a low round of 80 or lower where I've seen him adjust the ball at least five times prior to hitting it.  I've wondered how many strokes better my score would be if I would have engineered a better lie for my ball 5 or 10 times a round, but since we don't play for money or anything other than the joy of playing, I figure it's his loss if he wants to bend the rules.  I've noticed that he seems to be better about it the last few seasons and maybe not coincidentally, he's been playing in a league or two and has been playing in more charity tournaments, so maybe playing under more watchful eyes in competitive situations has gotten him into better habits.  I've got another friend who is about my skill level who occasionally has some memory loss while counting strokes on bad holes for him, but it's not so frequent or egregious or important that I worry about it.

The one time my lower handicap friend and two of his friends that I joined for a round wanted to "make things interesting," I figured out a way to go along with them without having to worry about his ball lie creativity.  I declined a skins game for the entire 18 holes and instead suggested a closest-to-the-pin competition on the par-3 holes.  He couldn't fudge a tee shot, so it worked out OK and if he didn't hit the green his ball's lie made no difference since someone else was always closer to the hole and on the green.

[Chief Broom]

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Some guys can't accept their shortcomings and if you haven't seen it in person, then great, but based on that sentence I bolded, I'm not sure I'd have any idea what game you guys play either.

It's called a "modified stableford" format.  The league I'm a member of uses it.  It's where you pull points.  1 point for bogie, 2 points par, 4 points birdie, 8 eagle.  You miss your bogie you pick up and try again the next hole.  It's a pretty common format for league play.  The league keeps your point total from prior rounds and uses that (generally a running average of so many rounds) to give each player a total of points they are supposed to "pull".  Totals are expressed in terms of plus or minus in relation to the total you are given to pull on any given day.  This way players of differing skill levels can compete fairly against each other.  I pull 25, a scratch player has to pull 36, wherever we end up in relation to our points determines who wins.  I believe some European Golf Unions use this method for their handicaps?  ESQ is a similar limiter of strokes or points.

I'm an older guy so maybe guys don't try to run smack by me when we play together regarding method of play?  I'll put money on the line with guys who roll the ball, but it factors in on strokes given.  Most golf gamblers realize that setting the bet is just as important as how you play.  It all depends on what you agree to prior to teeing off.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by Chief Broom

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

Some guys can't accept their shortcomings and if you haven't seen it in person, then great, but based on that sentence I bolded, I'm not sure I'd have any idea what game you guys play either.

It's called a "modified stableford" format.  The league I'm a member of uses it.  It's where you pull points.  1 point for bogie, 2 points par, 4 points birdie, 8 eagle.  You miss your bogie you pick up and try again the next hole.  It's a pretty common format for league play.  The league keeps your point total from prior rounds and uses that (generally a running average of so many rounds) to give each player a total of points they are supposed to "pull".  Totals are expressed in terms of plus or minus in relation to the total you are given to pull on any given day.  This way players of differing skill levels can compete fairly against each other.  I pull 25, a scratch player has to pull 36, wherever we end up in relation to our points determines who wins.  I believe some European Golf Unions use this method for their handicaps?  ESQ is a similar limiter of strokes or points.

I'm an older guy so maybe guys don't try to run smack by me when we play together regarding method of play?  I'll put money on the line with guys who roll the ball, but it factors in on strokes given.  Most golf gamblers realize that setting the bet is just as important as how you play.  It all depends on what you agree to prior to teeing off.

I guess it makes sense if you guys are playing for money and the cheating is factored into the bets. It seems like a hassle though.