Should you actively hold the wrist angle?

[Apotheosis]

Originally Posted by logman

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1osHZ5stN4

Here's Taly Williams pretty much maintaining his wrist cock

He doesn't cock his wrist very much if at all in that swing.  Look at where his club is at the top of the back swing its pointing up in the air.  A cocked wrist would have the club face pointed in the direction of his target.

Edit: If i have the fancy drawing tools i could show it a little clearer, but look at the angle between club shaft and forearm.  That is not a cocked wrist.

[logman]

Originally Posted by atanum

Absolutely correct. I wasted 6 months with a "PGA" certified instructor from UK who wanted to induce lag by holding the wrist angle. Lag is a derivative function of your swing mechanics falling into place, as others have noted. If somebody is trying to get a silver bullet for lag - it's not gonna happen

I'm not saying a "silver bullett", I'm saying why can't I manipulate my swing to build more lag. Of course I could do it, hell I've done it. So what's the down side? dont say missing the ball please!

And if you play the first 10 second of Taly Williams video he say's something like "maintain that relationship(the wrists and hands)all the way to impact."

Is he just wrong?

[logman]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

He doesn't cock his wrist very much if at all in that swing.  Look at where his club is at the top of the back swing its pointing up in the air.  A cocked wrist would have the club face pointed in the direction of his target.

Edit: If i have the fancy drawing tools i could show it a little clearer, but look at the angle between club shaft and forearm.  That is not a cocked wrist.

Nice swing though, isn't it!

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Apotheosis

He doesn't cock his wrist very much if at all in that swing.  Look at where his club is at the top of the back swing its pointing up in the air.  A cocked wrist would have the club face pointed in the direction of his target.

Edit: If i have the fancy drawing tools i could show it a little clearer, but look at the angle between club shaft and forearm.  That is not a cocked wrist.

Looks like Steve Stricker.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

And if you play the first 10 second of Taly Williams video he say's something like "maintain that relationship(the wrists and hands)all the way to impact."

Is he just wrong?

Yes.

He might feel like he is but he isn't.

Look, all great players do two things:

1. The maintain lag long enough to still have a teeny bit of lag (shaft hasn't passed the lead arm) prior to impact.
2. They throw out the wrist angle (the right wrist/forearm flying wedge). I'm not saying they actively do it, or they feel it, but the angle increases throughout the later stages of the downswing.

See also: http://thesandtrap.com/t/44717/is-there-a-5th-power-accumulator/ .

Originally Posted by logman

Isn't wrist cock and lag what you guys are after? isnt wristlag the cure to the "flipping" that seems to be the current bogie man?

Only to a certain point. It's not flipping if it happens after impact. Flipping is when the shaft passes inline prior to impact.

Originally Posted by bunkerputt

Name one professional on the planet has the same angle in the wrists at the top that he does at impact?  If it's not the same, there is some amount of throw, so what are we even arguing about?  This seems like one of those kinds of threads that gets started by 20 handicappers and divides itself perfectly into good strikers who know how to hit a golf and everyone else.  Good players know golf is a dynamic and athletic movement that requires good mechanics, good rhythm, and always requires some level of sequencing and timing.  Consequently, they end up spending their time with a goal in mind, making minor adjustments here and there to get better.  Bad players are always looking for a silver bullet so they don't have to put any work into it.  In the end, people deserve the scores they shoot.

Exactly. Zero of them do.

[telegolf]

Hey I've done a lot of work on this in the past couple years and hit the ball flush now so let me just say ball first ground second is the key to hitting a pure strike right? You can honestly achieve this without holding wrist cock , the swing just doesn't work that way . The main thing is there is no point holding or creating lag or energy without being able to get rid if it through the ball with a square club face . So what I'm going say is a flip can be by rotating or bending your left wrist ! The key is not to let the club head past your hands that is all! This requires rotation of the forearms and hands! To do so with a square club face . Hands travel inside and club travels out without out passing your hands through impact. That is pure striking and what the greats do! aYou can honestly hold as much wrist cock as possible and not do this, still not hit the ball for shit!!!! Actually shank it with heaps of wrist cock. It's how you go through the ball that counts , lag is a result of this ! Body motion and leading with the lower body is worth nothing if you can not do this! Just work on rotation ! Rotation!!! And you will figure it out! So much bull out there in golf land and why do you think so many people are still bad at the game! Because of all the bull!! You want to stop flipping just don't let the club head past your hands stop throwing he club head , it doesn't require to be thrown to create speed ! Club head is the last part to get the speed it is generated from the inside ! Like a tennis shot you don't throw a tennis racquet head at the ball you move threw it !!! Like a strong lever !!

[telegolf]

Also can I just say no short left thumbs ??? Huh what a crock !!! So ben hogans short left thumb destroyed his lag!!! ????really guys come on!!' actually long left thumb makes you throw the club head more for an armature it encourages a chopping motion! good players long left thumb can create more lag! But you got to know how to hit the ball first! Hit the ball with rotation

[JetFan1983]

Oooo, yikes.... I kind of rambled on in my opinion on this thread from over a year ago.... just to summarize, I don't think you should actively try to hold the wrist angle in 99% of situations when learning golf... I think there may be some rare times where, at the range, you may want to feel like something is being held, but I dunno.... generally, the "wrist angle" or whatever is best held in tact if the golfer's weight is going forward, his arms are coming down in sequence with his body, his head is staying relatively steady, and he's some semblance of being on plane.

Or something like that.

Jeez, I need to fix my rambling tendencies.

[telegolf]

yeah man your right , the key is to swing on plane or even under in the case of hogan and that , this means you have to hold wrist angle i suppose as a by product of swinging on plane , not the other way though that's what really in truth creates lag.

[mvmac]

Also can I just say no short left thumbs ??? Huh what a crock !!! So ben hogans short left thumb destroyed his lag!!! ????really guys come on!!' actually long left thumb makes you throw the club head more for an armature it encourages a chopping motion! good players long left thumb can create more lag! But you got to know how to hit the ball first! Hit the ball with rotation

Long left thumb is the way to go.

[telegolf]

My thumb is long to in in between. too but a lot of great players use short is what I was trying to get at !!i think a short thumb is probably better for control for most guys though !

[mvmac]

My thumb is long to in in between. too but a lot of great players use short is what I was trying to get at !!i think a short thumb is probably better for control for most guys though !

Disagree.  There is a myth out there that a long left thumb makes you "overswing" or get narrow at the top of the backswing.  Just not true.  Since most players flip the crap out of it and flash the club head across the ball, the more leverage players can attain, the more consistent contact will be.

Back to the topic, would the left wrist cock be something you "hold", no, lag happens.  If you try to hold anything you're giving up speed and possibly screwing up some alignments.

[saevel25]

I would say you only hold something if it is a feel that promotes a good move, like actually getting to a flat left wrist at impact, not that it should promote lagging.

[dchoye]

I dont think about my wrist angle with my long game.

Im more aware of my left wrist position with punch and flip wedge shots inside 140 yards.

to keep the ball high for my wedges, the more bow my left wrist is at impact the higher trajectory the ball starts off.

If i need a really really  low shot , say under tree, and Im off the fairway, I will cup my left wrist and "flip" but only to a flat position , never bow.

[nevets88]

Is there a difference between keeping your clubhead from tipping out, keeping it on plane vs "holding"?

Is "holding" the same as at the top, just before the downswing, you feel the clubhead is going behind (if north is the target and you're facing east, west is behind) you?

[mvmac]

Is there a difference between keeping your clubhead from tipping out, keeping it on plane vs "holding"?

Yes, have you seen this? http://thesandtrap.com/t/66573/how-to-effectively-create-lag-on-the-downswing

Is "holding" the same as at the top, just before the downswing, you feel the clubhead is going behind (if north is the target and you're facing east, west is behind) you?

Holding just means not changing the wrist angles from the top of the back swing to impact (or even after).  It's basically impossible to do.  Lag happens due to good sequencing, having the weight forward, etc, you don't "hold" anything to create lag.