Players Needed!!! Join the TST 2012 Forward Tees Experiment!!!

[jmill514]

Course Name : Salt Lake Country Club

Course Website : saltlakecountryclub.com

Course Style : Long

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6701 / 72.0 / 130

Regular Tee Average Score : 80

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5515 / 65.8 / 119

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 75

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 74

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Are we suppose to use the ladies rating/slope or an estimate of what the men`s rating/slope would be?  Looks like 5097 is the women`s tees and likely their rating/slope as it is only 1.6 strokes less with a 1400+ yard drop in distance??  Can`t see the rating/slope on the online card, so maybe I have it wrong.

Are you looking at the women's ratings? Use the formula in the first post (in the spoiler). Or, if there's enough of a difference, play the golds and know that you have an accurate men's rating/slope. It's up to you.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by Jimdangles

Who do you think will see more improvement. Some lowcappers being able to drive greens, or hackers having less fat or thin shots to get it into the hole?

Im pretty interested to see how this plays out. I sure hope it helps out as erik hoped. I havent broke 80 but have shot 81 a few times. I hope it helps put me there.

I suspect 20+ crowd will see the biggest improvement.  The guys that often take 3-4 strokes to get on the green. Their ratio of long game strokes to putts is the highest, and the distance will only help half that equation.

I think low cappers will be next, low being say 0-10.  I figure they will be driving greens, 5 in 2, and pin seeking when shooting for GIR.

I think those in between will see the least improvement.  Those are the guys who typically get into trouble either with a few stray drives (which will still be stray drives) or get in position for GIR with mid to low irons but poor accuracy results in missed greens.  I predict they will just be missing the green.  As a 14, I hope I am wrong.

Also, can we call this a tournament and record it as such for handicap purposes?  I'd love to have a low tournament score!

[adam e]

[ Course Name : Treesdale Golf Club Course Website : [URL=http://www.clubcorp.com/Clubs/Treesdale-Golf-Country-Club/]http://www.clubcorp.com/Clubs/Treesdale-Golf-Country-Club/[/URL] Course Style : target golf, penal Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6500 / 72.5 / 142 Regular Tee Average Score : 88 Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5400 / 68.4 / 124 Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 81 Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 77   This should be very interesting. This is a tough course and I've shot everything from 81 to 100+. I'd like to see what it's like from the forward tees.

[tiger187126]

Originally Posted by dsc123

I suspect 20+ crowd will see the biggest improvement.  The guys that often take 3-4 strokes to get on the green. Their ratio of long game strokes to putts is the highest, and the distance will only help half that equation.

I think low cappers will be next, low being say 0-10.  I figure they will be driving greens, 5 in 2, and pin seeking when shooting for GIR.

I think those in between will see the least improvement.  Those are the guys who typically get into trouble either with a few stray drives (which will still be stray drives) or get in position for GIR with mid to low irons but poor accuracy results in missed greens.  I predict they will just be missing the green.  As a 14, I hope I am wrong.

Also, can we call this a tournament and record it as such for handicap purposes?  I'd love to have a low tournament score!

i played the ladies tees with my wife one day and it was not as fun as you'd think it would be. i had trouble adjusting to the length and would just go driver off a hole without checking to see how far that approach carry was (no gps or rangefinder). the fairways also tended to narrow down towards the hole or i would have an awkward dogleg shot that was setup for a 150 yard shot from the women's tee that i would try to blast.

i think playing conservative from the women's tee will get good results, but i played aggressive and it didn't make me feel any better about my game. i played better from 7000 yard tees than i did from the 5600 (different courses, but similar toughness).

[MEfree]

Originally Posted by MEfree

Are we suppose to use the ladies rating/slope or an estimate of what the men`s rating/slope would be?  Looks like 5097 is the women`s tees and likely their rating/slope as it is only 1.6 strokes less with a 1400+ yard drop in distance??  Can`t see the rating/slope on the online card, so maybe I have it wrong.

Originally Posted by iacas

Are you looking at the women's ratings? Use the formula in the first post (in the spoiler). Or, if there's enough of a difference, play the golds and know that you have an accurate men's rating/slope. It's up to you.

I wasn`t asking for myselft...I was referring to teeitup22

Course Name: Wilderness Ridge

Course Website: www.wildernessridgegolf.com/

Course Style: Long, windy, and pretty open.

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 6518/ 72.6/132

Regular Tee Average Score: 80

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 5097/ 71.0/122

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round): 76

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round): 72

However, I would be interested in a bit of guidance for myself so that I can get you the most useful results for your experiment:

Originally Posted by MEfree

I have 2 courses I play regularly and am deciding whether to go from my usual blues at 6507 on the River to men`s gold at 5359 or ladies red at 4762 at the one where the tips are 6886 (which I usually play when I am by myself) or go from my regular whites at 6521 on the Ranch to men`s gold at 5842 or lady's red at 5582 with the tips at 7090 (which I have played once).  The River course offers more of a contrast, but can be a bit harder to get out on.  The Ranch is in the process of building some shorter women`s tees, but it doesn`t look like this will be ready this year.  FWIW, both courses are over 9,000 feet elevation, so will be really short regardless.

Generally speaking Erik, would you rather have us play the mens's gold and know the slope/rating or play a slightly shorter lady's red and have to guesstimate?

I haven`t finalized which of two possible courses I will play, but the yardage diff will either be 5842 vs 5582 or 5359 vs 4762.  This compares to the 6500+ I normally play at.

Looking at the two score cards, choice 1 only has 5 non-par 3s that have more than a 40 yard difference and I already go for the green on one of the par 4s with a 2nd par 4 likely being a similar lay-up (but shorter club) unless I try to hit a really stupid shot.  The point is, there really are only 3 holes where the aggressive and conservative strategies will differ much.

Choice 2 from the reds has 13 non par 3s where this is a 40+ yard difference, so there is a lot more chance for the two strategies to differ.

How are we suppose to play a 351 par 4 that becomes a 152 yard par 3 using the conservative strategy?  (This question is N/A if I play the golds as opposed to the reds as the hole then becomes a 257 par 4 that is easily reachable with the aggressive strategy and a 150 yard lay up using the conservative strategy).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by MEfree

How are we suppose to play a 351 par 4 that becomes a 152 yard par 3 using the conservative strategy?

Try to hit it on the green and then try to make the putt. :)

Sometimes like this extreme example there won't be a change in strategy between the two styles.

[Connorgolfer96]

Course Name : Sun Prairie Golf Course

Course Website : http://www.sunprairiegolfcourse.com/index.html

Course Style : Wooded, few traps, narrow fairways, fairly short

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 6658 / 71.3 /117

Regular Tee Average Score: 87

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5395 / 69.8 / 106

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 80

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 82

[Jimbo Slice]

Course Name : Desert Rose

Course Website : http://www.desertrosegc.com/index.php

Course Style : Park, Tree lined, Streams, Penal if you stray

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6511 / 69.8 / 118

Regular Tee Average Score : 100

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 5458 / 65.5 / 109

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 92

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) :89

My best round at my home course Desert Rose is 95. I have a few 96's also. Bad scores of recent rounds are around 104.

[Jimbo Slice]

Should I NOT play both of these rounds on the same day? I have played multiple rounds a few times. I always shoot better my second round.

[bigwave916]

Originally Posted by dsc123

I suspect 20+ crowd will see the biggest improvement.  The guys that often take 3-4 strokes to get on the green. Their ratio of long game strokes to putts is the highest, and the distance will only help half that equation.

I think low cappers will be next, low being say 0-10.  I figure they will be driving greens, 5 in 2, and pin seeking when shooting for GIR.

I think those in between will see the least improvement.  Those are the guys who typically get into trouble either with a few stray drives (which will still be stray drives) or get in position for GIR with mid to low irons but poor accuracy results in missed greens.  I predict they will just be missing the green.  As a 14, I hope I am wrong.

Also, can we call this a tournament and record it as such for handicap purposes?  I'd love to have a low tournament score!

I don't think handicap is a good predictor of the results we will see with this experiment. Someone with an excellent short game who is normally short off the tee will probably see an improvement. Someone who is average length off the tee, but has a mediocre short game will still have a mediocre short game and he may find himself in trouble that he couldn't reach from his regular tees. Long ball hitters may hit more greens and may have eagle putts from the short tees, but it has been my experience that when GIR goes up so does total putts.

We tried something similar in  a 5 day, 56 golfer trip to Myrtle Beach and it was difficult to see a pattern just looking at scores and handicaps. My point is that it might turn out that you would need a few additional data points such as fairways hit, GIR, and putts per round to make sense of the results.

I plan on posting my scores for handicap, but for sure I'll also enter the adjusted rating and slope for the short tee rounds.

[O Canada]

Course Name : Golf Club of Florissant

Course Website :

Course Style : hilly, blind shots and small greens

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6509/70.7/128

Regular Tee Average Score : 87

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 4799/69.0/115

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 80

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) :78

[Chilli Dipper]

The course I'd like to use for this challenge has installed dwarf bermuda greens, and has been closed all summer. This course is a little more contrived, and I don't know how well it holds up from forward tees; I guess I'll find out.

Course Name: Sugar Hill Golf Club

Course Website: http://www.sugarhillgolfclub.com/

Course Style: Parkland course, hilly, water comes into play on nine holes

Regular (Blue) Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 6522 / 71.5 / 139

Regular Tee Average Score: 96

Forward (Gold) Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 5332 / 66.5 / 119

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round): 87

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round): 85

[jaredshows1]

Course Name : Links on the Bayou

Course Website :http://linksonthebayou.com/

Course Style :Links style, Open, Windy, Fast Undulating Greens

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6842 / 73.6 / 136

Regular Tee Average Score : 76

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope :5305 / 66.7 / 115

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) : 71

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) : 70

[gwlee7]

Course Name : Birchwood Country Club

Course Website : http://www.birchwoodcc.net/

Course Style : Park, Tree lined fairways.  Small sloped greens

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 6451/70.7/128

Regular Tee Average Score : 84 (since reopening with new greens)

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope : 4753/63.1/101

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round) :77

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round) :75

[Lefthook]

Course Name: Fox Meadow

Course Website: http://www.foxmeadowcc.com/

Course Style: Links

Regular Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 7,019 / 73.6/132

Regular Tee Average Score: 84

Forward Tee Yardage / Rating / Slope: 5,801/ 71.0/122

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Aggressive Round): 72

Forward Tee Predicted Score (Conservative Round): 74

Couple very driveable par 4 on the aggressive round

[iacas]

See here to post your results: http://thesandtrap.com/t/61875/tst-2012-forward-tees-experiment-results-thread .

[darkhunter139]

[COLOR=FF0000][SIZE=24px] See here to post your results: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/t/61875/tst-2012-forward-tees-experiment-results-thread]http://thesandtrap.com/t/61875/tst-2012-forward-tees-experiment-results-thread[/URL] . [/SIZE][/COLOR]

Awesome can't wait to see the results! I played my aggressive round today, going to try and get round 2 in tomorrow if it doesn't rain.