When to use different short game shots

[BioGolfNebraska]

I have been golfing about a year now, and typically shoot around 105-110.  Like most high handicap players, my GIR rate is pretty low (~13% for the summer), and the main reason for my high scores is the high number of strokes I make around the green.  I think if I could eliminate these tripple/quadruple bogies that are caused by bad choice of short game shot, my long game is okay enough for me to consistantly be shooting in the mid to low 90s (a range that would put me not far off from the people I often golf with, so I wasn't 10-15 strokes ahead of the pack).

My trouble is, I find that my selection of which shot to use around the green is poor.  This makes the outcome much worse for decently executed shots (but perhaps the wrong shot).

I would like to practice some specific short game shots so that I can execute them well, but I struggle with when to use each shot.

Here is my question:

What are some of the different short game shots you have, which club/situation do you use them in, and what kind of stroke do you use?

For example:

My chips I tend to use whenever there is less than 20 yards to the green, and I tend to use a 7 or 8 iron, but I have seen others use a 9 iron or up to a 60* wedge for some chips.  I am not sure when to use different clubs for chipping.

Also, any other specialty shots (such as a hybrid/2 iron around the green) that are useful?  I sometimes punch/run with a 5 hybrid from around 100 yards off the green if I am in the trees and can't loft it.

Thanks!

[rustyredcab]

If you are looking to break 100, my advise is to get on the green. Don't get too greedy about trying to get close to the hole. Job one is to get the ball on the green. So instead of landing the ball two feet on the green so it might rollout near the hole, land the ball six feet on the green and make sure it gets on the green even if you miss you spot by a few feet. Did you notice Tiger yesterday aiming 60 feet away from the pin on a bunker shot just to make sure he got out and stayed on the green? Most of us do not do that often enough and end up missing the green and putting ourselves in another bad spot. Play a shot that will make your next shot a putt on the green.

As for "shots"

Putt whenever you can from off the green.

Chip when you cannot putt,

Pitch when you cannot chip,

Flop shot when you cannot pitch.

I like the idea of using one club for most chips and pitches, moving hands and ball position to change flight, and thus changing the shot with the same club. Others like changing clubs with the same "shot" to effect the height and rollout. Looking at your setup, I'd use that 54.5* for most shots around the green and get comfortable hitting it in lots of situations.

[saevel25]

That's a lot of situations. and varies depending on how i feel.

Like lets look at saturday, i was on this golf hole, it was a short par 4, i drove the ball to the front right of the green. But i am below the green level and there is a mound that i have to just carry and the ball will roll to the hole that is in the back left. Or i could try to carry it further into the green. So two ways to play this shot, keep it lower and try to just carry the mound and use it to propel the ball to the hole, or carry the ball further and higher. I took the lower shot but hit just the top of the mound and i ended up 20' short of the hole. I made the putt :) but i was about 2 feet more from being really really good.

Really, just hit shots and see how it works. lets say we take the same green, two different pin positions. Lets say there is a tier in the green and if you don't get it up to the next shelf its comming back down to the front of the green. Lets say the pin is in the front. Now you can hit a short chip, you could carry it into the tier and have it roll back, you could putt from off the front of the green, heck i use hybrids sometimes. Now lets say you have the pin in the back. You could try to putt it, maybe hit a chip and run up the tier, or you can carry it back to the pin and hope to get a bit of spin to keep it on the green.

The best way to learn short game, learn to make solid contact with your short game shots, and then just try out different shots and see how they turn out.

Two weeks ago i had a 10 yard pitch to the green and i was way above the hole, i played about 20 feet out to the right it hit this slope and rode it down to the hole left me 3 feet for birdie. (par 5). Or i could have hit a higher shot into the middle of the green to try to take some speed off it. Two different shots, same position. Very few times are you left with the one absolute perfect shot you should play.

[boogielicious]

I would recommend reading Stan Utley's The Art of the Short Game .  Easy read with very good tips.  I got much better at the short game by first just practicing with one club, 54 wedge.  You can pitch, chip, bump and run, flop, all those with this one club.  You can then expand to other clubs with the same technique.  Now I use the 58-12 mostly with the 54 for when it is more uphill and I want to get more run out.

I will use a 6 iron occasionally for a long bump and run, but I feel this takes more accuracy for speed and direction because you are really putting with it and the green affects the shot a lot more.

[x129]

Your problem is execution not short game shot selection.  Get good at the basic pitch (i.e. you should be able to land it on a green from 5 yards to 50 yards most of the time).  It is much better to have 1 go to shot than a dozen shots that may or may not work. Obviously you need the rest of the shots to be able to attack the pin but that shouldn't be a priority to you. Get the ball on the green and make your 2 putt and move on. I like the Utley method of pulling your SW/LW and doing all your greenside work with it. I don't get to practice a ton so only having 1 club makes me feel more comfortable. YMMV

Quote:

I have been golfing about a year now, and typically shoot around 105-110.  Like most high handicap players, my GIR rate is pretty low (~13% for the summer), and the main reason for my high scores is the high number of strokes I make around the green.  I think if I could eliminate these tripple/quadruple bogies that are caused by bad choice of short game shot, my long game is okay enough for me to consistantly be shooting in the mid to low 90s (a range that would put me not far off from the people I often golf with, so I wasn't 10-15 strokes ahead of the pack).

My trouble is, I find that my selection of which shot to use around the green is poor.  This makes the outcome much worse for decently executed shots (but perhaps the wrong shot).

I would like to practice some specific short game shots so that I can execute them well, but I struggle with when to use each shot.

Here is my question:

What are some of the different short game shots you have, which club/situation do you use them in, and what kind of stroke do you use?

For example:

My chips I tend to use whenever there is less than 20 yards to the green, and I tend to use a 7 or 8 iron, but I have seen others use a 9 iron or up to a 60* wedge for some chips.  I am not sure when to use different clubs for chipping.

Also, any other specialty shots (such as a hybrid/2 iron around the green) that are useful?  I sometimes punch/run with a 5 hybrid from around 100 yards off the green if I am in the trees and can't loft it.

Thanks!

[BioGolfNebraska]

Originally Posted by x129

Your problem is execution not short game shot selection.  Get good at the basic pitch (i.e. you should be able to land it on a green from 5 yards to 50 yards most of the time).  It is much better to have 1 go to shot than a dozen shots that may or may not work. Obviously you need the rest of the shots to be able to attack the pin but that shouldn't be a priority to you. Get the ball on the green and make your 2 putt and move on. I like the Utley method of pulling your SW/LW and doing all your greenside work with it. I don't get to practice a ton so only having 1 club makes me feel more comfortable. YMMV

Quote:

I think my problem is a mixture of execution and shot selection.  I am a pretty good chipper (every couple rounds I hole one or two from off the green), but I think I am sometimes hurt by chosing to chip in a situation where a chip is a hard shot to perfectly execute (such as too far off the green, or when there is only a little bit of green between the fringe and the pin).  I do like the idea of having one or two greenside shots with 1 club in order to perfect that.  I think I am going to designate my 7 iron as my chipper, and practice that, and use my pitching wedge (which I could use from 100 yards in) as my designated pitcher, and practice that.  This way I have only the choice between "pitch with my wedge" or "chip with my 7 iron".  Thanks for the advice, I will practice these simple shots this week and try them out this weekend-  we are playing a rather difficult, but manageable course, where difficult greens/greenside areas make the short game important (my only time playing, a few months after starting, I shot a 124, so hopefully these suggestions will improve on that).

[x129]

Next round, write down every short game shot you try (30 yard chip) and the result. After that you can look at the results and see how many were bad shots or just bad choices.  I have a hard time believing you can make that many bad choices that turn bogeys (chip and 2 putt) into quads while I know execution (bladed over the green, the semiwhiff where you hit the ball 6 feet into the trap,...) can add up in a hurry. Again figure out what shots you have and play them. If you can't attack the pin because you don't have the right shot (no green and you don't have a lob shot), figure out where you can leave the ball on the green and 2 putt. Your trying to get down to 90. That is bogey golf so you don't need pars.  Over time you can add more complexity to your short game (flight the pitches/high low, learn lob shots,....) but there is no need to run before you can walk.

Originally Posted by BioGolfNebraska

I think my problem is a mixture of execution and shot selection.  I am a pretty good chipper (every couple rounds I hole one or two from off the green), but I think I am sometimes hurt by chosing to chip in a situation where a chip is a hard shot to perfectly execute (such as too far off the green, or when there is only a little bit of green between the fringe and the pin).  I do like the idea of having one or two greenside shots with 1 club in order to perfect that.  I think I am going to designate my 7 iron as my chipper, and practice that, and use my pitching wedge (which I could use from 100 yards in) as my designated pitcher, and practice that.  This way I have only the choice between "pitch with my wedge" or "chip with my 7 iron".  Thanks for the advice, I will practice these simple shots this week and try them out this weekend-  we are playing a rather difficult, but manageable course, where difficult greens/greenside areas make the short game important (my only time playing, a few months after starting, I shot a 124, so hopefully these suggestions will improve on that).

[ptadley]

My suggestion is to make one club your "go to" club for all shots 40 yards and in. This will take some of the guess work out of choosing a club for these types of shots. I exclusively use my 60/04 wedge for all shots within 40 yards. This is the club that I feel most comfortable with.

Once you pick one club to use around the greens, you will learn how to use the same club and hit a number of different shots. With my 60 degree wedge, I can hit a little bump and run or flop it up to the hole. Using the same club will give you a really good feel for hitting these different shots.

Also, specialty shots like chipping with a hybrid, have their place in the game, but you need to practice these shots to get the feel for them.

So my advice to you is to take the guess work out of pulling a club around the green and develop some touch with a single club.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by x129

Next round, write down every short game shot you try (30 yard chip) and the result. After that you can look at the results and see how many were bad shots or just bad choices.  I have a hard time believing you can make that many bad choices that turn bogeys (chip and 2 putt) into quads while I know execution (bladed over the green, the semiwhiff where you hit the ball 6 feet into the trap,...) can add up in a hurry. Again figure out what shots you have and play them. If you can't attack the pin because you don't have the right shot (no green and you don't have a lob shot), figure out where you can leave the ball on the green and 2 putt. Your trying to get down to 90. That is bogey golf so you don't need pars.  Over time you can add more complexity to your short game (flight the pitches/high low, learn lob shots,....) but there is no need to run before you can walk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BioGolfNebraska

I think my problem is a mixture of execution and shot selection.  I am a pretty good chipper (every couple rounds I hole one or two from off the green), but I think I am sometimes hurt by chosing to chip in a situation where a chip is a hard shot to perfectly execute (such as too far off the green, or when there is only a little bit of green between the fringe and the pin).  I do like the idea of having one or two greenside shots with 1 club in order to perfect that.  I think I am going to designate my 7 iron as my chipper, and practice that, and use my pitching wedge (which I could use from 100 yards in) as my designated pitcher, and practice that.  This way I have only the choice between "pitch with my wedge" or "chip with my 7 iron".  Thanks for the advice, I will practice these simple shots this week and try them out this weekend-  we are playing a rather difficult, but manageable course, where difficult greens/greenside areas make the short game important (my only time playing, a few months after starting, I shot a 124, so hopefully these suggestions will improve on that).

I will choose to respectfully disagree with the portion where I added emphasis. I think a beginner should start with a concept of hitting their short game shots high or low as required. Whether it's better to hit the ball high or low determines where you need to land the ball for it to end up where you want. How hard to hit the ball and with what trajectory are 2 most basic pieces of information in club and shot selection. Like whether to hit a pitch or a chip for example.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by ptadley

My suggestion is to make one club your "go to" club for all shots 40 yards and in. This will take some of the guess work out of choosing a club for these types of shots. I exclusively use my 60/04 wedge for all shots within 40 yards. This is the club that I feel most comfortable with.

Once you pick one club to use around the greens, you will learn how to use the same club and hit a number of different shots. With my 60 degree wedge, I can hit a little bump and run or flop it up to the hole. Using the same club will give you a really good feel for hitting these different shots.

Also, specialty shots like chipping with a hybrid, have their place in the game, but you need to practice these shots to get the feel for them.

So my advice to you is to take the guess work out of pulling a club around the green and develop some touch with a single club.

I spent a good portion of my early golf years on the short game because I spent a lot of time waiting (playing as a single) and the one thing I learned early on was that using one club for every type of shot is more difficult than learning to hit most shots with a few clubs. Just like it's easier to hit a cut lob with a 60 than an opened up 9-iron, there are some running shots (which were very popular before forced carries from every angle around the green became the norm) which are easier to play (more consistent) for most people with a less lofted club like a 9-iron.

[mdl]

It sounds to me like your main problem is that you feel much more comfortable with a chip and run shot with a low-iron than you do with any pitch shot, so you rely on finessing a perfect chip shot in situations where the much higher percentage shot is a simple pitch with much less run out.

I'd say practice a standard pitch shot with your 54˚ or 56˚.  I'd recommend that over choosing your PW as your pitch club just because you're probably going to keep using your chip and run shot whenever possible, so you'll only pitch it when the chip is a poor shot choice and you need height and less roll out, so you might as well practice and get good with a club that gives you more height and less roll out with the same stock pitch swing.

[BioGolfNebraska]

Originally Posted by mdl

It sounds to me like your main problem is that you feel much more comfortable with a chip and run shot with a low-iron than you do with any pitch shot, so you rely on finessing a perfect chip shot in situations where the much higher percentage shot is a simple pitch with much less run out.

I'd say practice a standard pitch shot with your 54˚ or 56˚.  I'd recommend that over choosing your PW as your pitch club just because you're probably going to keep using your chip and run shot whenever possible, so you'll only pitch it when the chip is a poor shot choice and you need height and less roll out, so you might as well practice and get good with a club that gives you more height and less roll out with the same stock pitch swing.

I think this is dead on, but I didn't realize it until you realized it for me.  I have always put it closer to the pin with a chip and run shot, so I force myself to do that when that shot is nearly impossible.

In regard to not needing pars to shoot a 90:  in regard to my game, I would disagree.  The majority of my holes are bogies now (anywhere from 7 to 12 per 18 holes).  I tend to have 1 or 2 holes that are a tripple bogie or higher (due to a long ball not being a dead hit, putting me in bad position).  Currently, I will par 0 to 3 holes per round, with a birdie being quite rare (only 3 this summer out of 30 rounds).  Although I am trying to be more consistent, I think the occasional bad shots that lead to high scores on a couple holes will remain for a little while.  However, if I could par the a higher percentage of the holes where I get within 30 yards of the pin with 2 strokes left for par (typically ~5-7 holes per round) it could easily make up for the the 1 or 2 tripple bogie or higher holes.  I think these pars where I am getting right next to the green in in regulation will be easier than eliminating my occasional bad full swings, and, thus, I think the short game could help me shoot better scores.

Thanks everyone for the tips.  I think you have made me realize that I should practice a simple, repeatable pitch shot for when the chip is impossible, and then to otherwise rely on a chip/putt to get close to the hole when I can.

[x129]

As far as worrying about getting pars, what is your score with 18 bogeys? 90. You will get pars and occasionally birdies along the way. What you can't do is get quads because you tried a high risk move instead of taking your bogey and moving on. Golf is about selective agression. Again as you get better, your goals change and the risks of certain paths also change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I will choose to respectfully disagree with the portion where I added emphasis. I think a beginner should start with a concept of hitting their short game shots high or low as required. Whether it's better to hit the ball high or low determines where you need to land the ball for it to end up where you want. How hard to hit the ball and with what trajectory are 2 most basic pieces of information in club and shot selection. Like whether to hit a pitch or a chip for example.

[rustyredcab]

For someone not breaking 100, when I say short game it is inside 30 yards -- not 100.

Make sure when you are inside 30 yards, you get in the hole in three strokes max 80% of the time and never take five strokes. I'll say it again: job = get on the green.

Keep track. I'll bet you don't get up and down in three 80% of the time. And I'll bet it is because of flubbed short shots. Not because you get on the green every time but just not close enough. Get the ball on the green and start putting.

[sean_miller]

Originally Posted by x129

I doubt any guy that is struggling to break 100 has consistant enough contact to worry about flighting the ball high or low. Practice the one shot till your contact is consistant. You will break 100 and then think about learning how to pitch the ball high or low. A medium pitch that you execute 95% of the time is a heck of a lot better than having a low pitch you can do 60% of the time and a high pitch you can do 70% when those misses result in lost shots. Should you rapidly (i.e. a month or so) get to the point where you can think more about ball controll? Hopefully.

As far as worrying about getting pars, what is your score with 18 bogeys? 90. You will get pars and occasionally birdies along the way. What you can't do is get quads because you tried a high risk move instead of taking your bogey and moving on. Golf is about selective agression. Again as you get better, your goals change and the risks of certain paths also change.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I will choose to respectfully disagree with the portion where I added emphasis. I think a beginner should start with a concept of hitting their short game shots high or low as required. Whether it's better to hit the ball high or low determines where you need to land the ball for it to end up where you want. How hard to hit the ball and with what trajectory are 2 most basic pieces of information in club and shot selection. Like whether to hit a pitch or a chip for example.

I guess I just disagree with the "one pitch fits all" approach to the short game. If a player can make contact with the ball at all, it's easier to master 3-4 shots with a couple clubs than try to guage the landing distance and runout when using one shot for all situations. A low running chip when just off the green or when you have a lot of green to work with (using something like an 8 iron), a higher pitch with a lofted club meant to carry 1/2 way between the fringe and the hole, a splash out of a bunker, and that same motion from the rough with very little release. If a person can't add 4 shots to their repetoire after a month of practice then they should take up crochet or knitting.

PS - I'm not talking about a person learning to hit all sorts of trajectories and varying the spin with their wedges. I mean they should know whether they want to hit the ball high or low which on day 1 could steer them toward either a pitch or a chip.

[newtogolf]

Another option is to manage the course and your shots so that you don't leave yourself with distances you're not comfortable making shots from.

My game from 70 - 120 yards is pretty consistent unless I have to hit from a really poor lie.  In my last round, I decided to try to manage the course so that I'd end up with comfortable distances into the green (70 - 120).  It helped me in a few ways;

1. I left my driver at home.  On holes with narrow fairways I hit hybrids and even used my mid - high loft irons off the tee.
2. Knowing I only needed to get within 120 yards of the green allowed me to club down on my 2nd and 3rd shots.  Instead of trying to hit my 3w 200 yards and then have to chip or pitch onto the green I could hit my gap or pitching wedge 100 yards.
3. I hit full clubs on almost every shot.
4. I felt less pressure because I wasn't trying to kill every ball, basically played to my strength as a decent iron player

The result was my score was 5 lower than my usual score on the course and I only lost one ball (into the water hazard on a Par 3 180 yard hole).  No other penalty strokes for lost or out of bounds balls (a first).  I did screw up one hole and came up short of the green which left me a awkward chip shot that I of course messed up and it cost me 2-3 strokes or else I'd have cut 7-8 strokes off my normal round.

I don't believe this is a viable long term solution, but until I get more consistent pitching and chipping it allows me to avoid the blow up holes that typically ruin my rounds.

[x129]

My post specifically mention flighting pitch shots so I have no clue where you go the idea we were talking about chip versus pitch shot. But the point is you don't need to gauge the landing distance and rollout. You need to hit the ball to the green, take your 2 putt and move on.  On some holes it will set up so you can pitch it to with in 10 ft  without adding risk and have a run at a 1 putt.   You are trying to break a 100 not 80.  In a months when the OP is no longer getting quads from his short game he can work on turning those bogeys into pars.

Originally Posted by sean_miller

I guess I just disagree with the "one pitch fits all" approach to the short game. If a player can make contact with the ball at all, it's easier to master 3-4 shots with a couple clubs than try to guage the landing distance and runout when using one shot for all situations. A low running chip when just off the green or when you have a lot of green to work with (using something like an 8 iron), a higher pitch with a lofted club meant to carry 1/2 way between the fringe and the hole, a splash out of a bunker, and that same motion from the rough with very little release. If a person can't add 4 shots to their repetoire after a month of practice then they should take up crochet or knitting.

PS - I'm not talking about a person learning to hit all sorts of trajectories and varying the spin with their wedges. I mean they should know whether they want to hit the ball high or low which on day 1 could steer them toward either a pitch or a chip.

[BioGolfNebraska]

Originally Posted by x129

My post specifically mention flighting pitch shots so I have no clue where you go the idea we were talking about chip versus pitch shot. But the point is you don't need to gauge the landing distance and rollout. You need to hit the ball to the green, take your 2 putt and move on.  On some holes it will set up so you can pitch it to with in 10 ft  without adding risk and have a run at a 1 putt.   You are trying to break a 100 not 80.  In a months when the OP is no longer getting quads from his short game he can work on turning those bogeys into pars.

The quads (and even +5 bogies) are usually from back to back fat/thin shots that go less than half of my desired distance.  If I am doing well up until 30 yards from the hole, mistakes almost never bring me worse than a double/tripple bogie.  This is why I am saying that I want to try and shoot for pars/birdies on the holes where I am actually near (or on) the green in regulation.  I feel like bringing those short game oopses that result in double to tripple bogies down to bogies, pars, and occasionally birdies would really make up for the holes were I am not getting even near the green in regulation (due to fat/thin shots, penalties, or shots with too much shape on them).

The problem is that although I feel like 60-80% of my long shots are pretty good, I have the opportunity to duff just about every club in the bag (mostly by losing track of my tempo, rushing a shot, and then not keeping my spine angle consistent).  So I feel like on holes where I had absolutely no duffed hits, I need to try and score near the greens.  Maybe this is not a good strategy still?