GPS inaccuracy fallacy

[TD22057]

My problem w/ phone GPS is that's just not a very good GPS.  A dedicated golf GPS will use WAAS which gives it good accuracy pretty much everywhere in North America. My understanding is that there are no common cell phones out there that support WAAS.  A phone is using a combination of a fairly poor GPS receiver combined with measurements from cell towers.  If you have a good cell tower geometry, the phone will actually be better than just GPS - but it could be much worse and the accuracy could vary widely over a course.  It's too bad because I think the cell phone apps are much, much better than the dedicated GPS software you get, especially with regard to stat keeping, ease of use, ease of data entry, etc.

[hanalei]

$499 for laser? $300 for GPS? Wow.. ill stick to being 3yards off, my swing will never be accurate to within <2inches :-(

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by hanalei

$499 for laser? $300 for GPS? Wow.. ill stick to being 3yards off, my swing will never be accurate to within <2inches

Remember you can't aim your GPS. With a laser you could shoot a tree, bunker, the flag itself, or other important landmarks. The GPS will give you a yardage to the front, back, and center of the green, but it doesn't help you off the tee, or if you want to know where the pin is. They often don't give you a pin sheet or use color coded flags, so you could be off by a lot more than 3 yards.

Besides, you can spend 500 on a good laser, but 300 is reasonable for a decent one, with 150 or a bit less getting you a useable model that might be harder to use or shorter ranged. GPS units are way cheaper than 300 though. The apps can be under 50 and cheap units are well under 100. Money well spent, in my opinion, to get a better club selection. It also helps on poorly marked courses and when practicing.

[onesome]

Who says $499.00 for a reliable laser? Bushnell pro v2's can be purchased for $299.00 at golfsmith and they are the same thing the big boys use.

[k-troop]

Regardless of how accurate a GPS is, you're still going to be more or less guessing where the flag is.  And if you're hitting a layup, or at something other than a flag, you'll have to manipulate the cursor to get a precise yardage.  With a laser, you can simply point to whatever you're aiming at and get a distance.  It's just too easy, and it's always accurate.

[Paradox]

I can't stress enough how easy a laser makes things.  Once you use one..you won't want anything else.  Look at my layup spot..shoot it, know exactly what club I need to hit to get there.  How far is it to those trees? 285...ok I can't reach them on my best drive.  How far is that bunker from here?  210..ok my hybrid will carry those easily.  It just takes ALL the guesswork out of making decisions.

[Grumpter]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Remember you can't aim your GPS. With a laser you could shoot a tree, bunker, the flag itself, or other important landmarks. The GPS will give you a yardage to the front, back, and center of the green, but it doesn't help you off the tee, or if you want to know where the pin is. They often don't give you a pin sheet or use color coded flags, so you could be off by a lot more than 3 yards.

Huh? My GPS gives me yardage to bunkers, over bunkers and for the most part trees. I can drag to a point anywhere on the screen and get the yardage to that point and at the same time am given a yardage to close to where the pin is (You can drag the flag around the green to set it's relative position).

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by Grumpter

Huh? My GPS gives me yardage to bunkers, over bunkers and for the most part trees. I can drag to a point anywhere on the screen and get the yardage to that point and at the same time am given a yardage to close to where the pin is (You can drag the flag around the green to set it's relative position).

When you are 150 yards away, you can move the little dot around on your screen to where YOU THINK the flag is, but you certainly don't know that for sure ... especially on holes where the green surface is hidden behind a mound or bunker.  Just like k-troop also said ... you are just guessing at that point.  Whereas, with the laser you are phsyically seeing what you are getting a measurement to so there is no question.

EDIT:  For most of us, 2 or 3 yards difference is no big deal cuz we ain't that precise anyway, but as you get better, you are going to want to know exactly how far things are.  Also, when I watch the "On The Range" show on golf channel I see caddies with lasers all the time, but haven't yet noticed one with a GPS.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

When you are 150 yards away, you can move the little dot around on your screen to where YOU THINK the flag is, but you certainly don't know that for sure ... especially on holes where the green surface is hidden behind a mound or bunker.  Just like k-troop also said ... you are just guessing at that point.  Whereas, with the laser you are phsyically seeing what you are getting a measurement to so there is no question.

Well, the flip-side to this is that if you have a blind shot where you can't see the target you want the distance to, you're out of luck with the laser. A GPS can be useful for setting layups around doglegs or for shooting for a part of the green other than where the flag is. It's not always (or perhaps even usually) the best strategy to choose your club to match the distance to the pin. In that case it comes down to measuring to the pin and guessing at how that relates to the part of the green you want to land on, or trying to choose that point on the GPS map.

With a quality GPS and decent reception conditions, the "inaccuracy" myth is indeed a fallacy. Sometimes the maps may be poor, that's true, but my experience suggests these are not nearly as common as the claims suggest. The laser is more accurate on paper, but whether that translates into a real benefit on the course is, to which this and other threads attest, a far more complicated question.

Which is better, a laser or a GPS? It depends on what you're trying to do with it.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by zeg

Well, the flip-side to this is that if you have a blind shot where you can't see the target you want the distance to, you're out of luck with the laser. A GPS can be useful for setting layups around doglegs or for shooting for a part of the green other than where the flag is. It's not always (or perhaps even usually) the best strategy to choose your club to match the distance to the pin. In that case it comes down to measuring to the pin and guessing at how that relates to the part of the green you want to land on, or trying to choose that point on the GPS map.

With a quality GPS and decent reception conditions, the "inaccuracy" myth is indeed a fallacy. Sometimes the maps may be poor, that's true, but my experience suggests these are not nearly as common as the claims suggest. The laser is more accurate on paper, but whether that translates into a real benefit on the course is, to which this and other threads attest, a far more complicated question.

Which is better, a laser or a GPS? It depends on what you're trying to do with it.

Absolutely.  And I have a GPS that works just fine for me most of the time because I just don't have the precision required to care about a 3-4 yard difference in accuracy of the GPS.  When shooting at a green, assuming a course that has colored flags for front, middle and back of green pin positions, all I do is this:

If it's middle , I just take the distance to the center of the green and run with it.  If it's front , I take 1/4 of the distance from the front to the back and add it to the front.  If it's back , I take 1/4 of the distance from front to back and subtract it from the back.  Obviously, I can occasionally be off by 3 or 4 yards, but that is more than close enough for me right now.

[zeg]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

If it's middle, I just take the distance to the center of the green and run with it.  If it's front, I take 1/4 of the distance from the front to the back and add it to the front.  If it's back, I take 1/4 of the distance from front to back and subtract it from the back.  Obviously, I can occasionally be off by 3 or 4 yards, but that is more than close enough for me right now.

Yeah, if you're doing that, then I'd say GPS and laser are equal. Unless you have a dimensioned map showing the pin location, you're guessing either way. I suspect for the vast majority of golfers, 3-4 yards will never be significant on any shot where you can't just pace it off.

In that situation, it comes down to other factors. For me, the GPS form factor fits a lot better, plus I like to be able to use it to measure the occasional shot. I can imagine others preferring the process involved in aiming around with a laser, but it just doesn't appeal to me.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by LuciusWooding

Remember you can't aim your GPS. With a laser you could shoot a tree, bunker, the flag itself, or other important landmarks. The GPS will give you a yardage to the front, back, and center of the green, but it doesn't help you off the tee, or if you want to know where the pin is. They often don't give you a pin sheet or use color coded flags, so you could be off by a lot more than 3 yards.

My GPS app uses satellite aerial views which allows the user to touch points on the map which then gives you a distance to that point from your current location, and from that point to the center of the green.  I use this all the time for bunker/hazard carry distances and proper layup locations.

Examples (I'm currently pretty far away from the first tee of the course nearest my job )

As was mentioned already though, you can pinpoint a location on the green to get the distance to that point, but you're still only guessing as to whether the flag is really there or a few yards further forward or back.

As for the OPs question, yes it is somewhat of a fallacy: the GPS data is only as good as your phone's GPS signal/lock.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by zeg

Well, the flip-side to this is that if you have a blind shot where you can't see the target you want the distance to, you're out of luck with the laser. A GPS can be useful for setting layups around doglegs or for shooting for a part of the green other than where the flag is. It's not always (or perhaps even usually) the best strategy to choose your club to match the distance to the pin. In that case it comes down to measuring to the pin and guessing at how that relates to the part of the green you want to land on, or trying to choose that point on the GPS map.

With a quality GPS and decent reception conditions, the "inaccuracy" myth is indeed a fallacy. Sometimes the maps may be poor, that's true, but my experience suggests these are not nearly as common as the claims suggest. The laser is more accurate on paper, but whether that translates into a real benefit on the course is, to which this and other threads attest, a far more complicated question.

Which is better, a laser or a GPS? It depends on what you're trying to do with it.

the blind shot thing isn't exactly a detraction for a laser.  All you have to do is go to the point where the shot wouldn't be blind...shoot your target..turn around..shoot the ground where your ball is.  Add them together...you got your distance.  If you're blind all the way to the green(an uphill hole on a shelf) then shoot the top of the hill at the front of the green.  Check flag color and get a decent yardage.  On most greens though...I can shoot the front..the flag, and the back in the area I wanna land the ball in a span of 10 seconds.  No moving cursors or playing with screens or anything else..just three button pushes.

As for just getting the number to the pin...it doesn't mean thats the number you swing for..it just gives you accurate info to base what shot you want to play off of.  There are many times when I'll shoot the flag and know that I'm going to be landing the ball well short of it..but it lets me know the club and the swing I need to try and accomplish that.  Doesn't mean I do it because I'm no pro..but it gives me confidence.

[Paradox]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

My GPS app uses satellite aerial views which allows the user to touch points on the map which then gives you a distance to that point from your current location, and from that point to the center of the green.  I use this all the time for bunker/hazard carry distances and proper layup locations.

Examples (I'm currently pretty far away from the first tee of the course nearest my job )

As was mentioned already though, you can pinpoint a location on the green to get the distance to that point, but you're still only guessing as to whether the flag is really there or a few yards further forward or back.

As for the OPs question, yes it is somewhat of a fallacy: the GPS data is only as good as your phone's GPS signal/lock.

are these google earth images or some other proprietary service? The reason I ask is because what turned me off to any "aerial image' GPS units is that in Google earth...my area isn't all that sharp so I just didn't wanna take a chance on cruddy maps.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Paradox

are these google earth images or some other proprietary service? The reason I ask is because what turned me off to any "aerial image' GPS units is that in Google earth...my area isn't all that sharp so I just didn't wanna take a chance on cruddy maps.

Yes, the particular app I use is powered by Google Maps/Earth.

[Golfingdad]

Originally Posted by bplewis24

(I'm currently pretty far away from the first tee of the course nearest my job )

The newer GPSs have clearly come a long way since the black and white ones with only the three numbers on them, front, middle, back of green.

By the way, Brandon, just curious ... what is your 36,685 yd layup club?

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by Golfingdad

The newer GPSs have clearly come a long way since the black and white ones with only the three numbers on them, front, middle, back of green.

By the way, Brandon, just curious ... what is your 36,685 yd layup club?

Three wood, of course.  That way I can back it up, if necessary

[Willie Malay]

Was on the course the other day with a friend. He had a handheld Garmin. I had the Garmin Approach1 watch. There were times we were 10 yards off. Go figure.