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Blitz28179

Tips to help me get hips more involved in downswing

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I think my downswing is an all upper body move that causes me to cut across the ball(outside / in).I either pull the golf ball off the teebox or sometimes hit a towering high ball that goes about 210 yards.Once every 30-40 swings I will hit one that goes 280-290 yards.I want to do that all the time lol.On the bottom of my driver It clearly shows that I cut across the ball with the markings.Anybody have this problem and fix it?What would you guys suggest I do to fix this?

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Your problem will go away once you start believing that power/distance/clubhead speed doesn't come from the strength of your arms. A good first step would be to find a clear explanation of the 'biokinetic chain' and understand how it works. Then read a little about minimising resistance in the downswing by keeping arms and club close to the body. And finally, understand how a double pendulum works - you'll then see why a passive wrist release maximises clubhead speed.

Sounds complicated, but the reading is interesting... Once you realise where swing power really comes from, you'll be less inclined to overpower your swing with your arms.

It's mostly a matter of belief in the mechanics and using it to curb your natural instincts....

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I've struggled with the issue of an arms-dominant swing up until very recently, but finally came to understand the real importance of keeping the arms and body more connected, at which point my swing became more of a swing than a "hit" - much less effort to get some really decent club-head speed.

I didn't work on my hip action even though, like you, it felt wrong (as did my leg action, impact position and follow-through), but rather I worked on the connection. For me, staying properly connected promotes the correct sequence of body actions - hips, legs etc all seem to naturally work how you think they should in a proper golf swing. Also, it eliminated my chicken-wing at impact.

The main "fix" for me on this aspect was paying particular attention to the following, specially the last item. I appreciate this may not apply to you, but I found it so significant that I thought I'd lay it out and it might prove useful to you. So, aside from the normal main keys I focus on :

  • staying "connected", esp. at the start of the backswing (i.e. arms close to torso), plus ensure a correct plane (not too flat)
  • calm the back-swing down (I somehow subconsciously swung too fast to compensate for the lack of power in the down-swing)
  • make a full shoulder turn, but don't overswing or collapse the left arm
  • a little pause at the top comes naturally if you maintain the connection and start the downswing which now won't start with the arms, but ...
  • ... keep the right elbow in toward your right hip (and don't get too flat here either)

There are plenty of people on here far more capable of describing this idea and if you feel it's missing in your swing then keep plugging away with questions until you get it because, at least to me, this one aspect of the swing has been hugely significant.

Joehuggy (a single-figure handicapper) recently posted on this too : http://thesandtrap.com/t/63148/from-250yard-carry-to-a-275-yard-carry-with-one-change EDIT : just saw that you posted there so obviously read it already

BTW, in my 4th bullet point I avoided saying what does actually start my down-swing because I'm not entirely sure if it's hips, torso, legs, some combination of those or something else, but i know it's no longer my arms.

TF

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Check this thread out http://thesandtrap.com/t/54115/weight-forward-and-secondary-axis-tilt Can't be sure without seeing your swing, but it sounds like you are shifting your upper body forwards on the downswing. The proper feeling you want at impact is the weight on the lead foot but the head back. Try the hips forward drill, there's a video of Dave Wedzik doing it somewhere, I don't have the time to link it atm, sorry. Do you film your swing? Its much more helpful to see what's happening on video.
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Originally Posted by Blitz28179

I think my downswing is an all upper body move that causes me to cut across the ball(outside / in).I either pull the golf ball off the teebox or sometimes hit a towering high ball that goes about 210 yards.Once every 30-40 swings I will hit one that goes 280-290 yards.I want to do that all the time lol.On the bottom of my driver It clearly shows that I cut across the ball with the markings.Anybody have this problem and fix it?What would you guys suggest I do to fix this?

Originally Posted by ChrisGSZ

Your problem will go away once you start believing that power/distance/clubhead speed doesn't come from the strength of your arms. A good first step would be to find a clear explanation of the 'biokinetic chain' and understand how it works. Then read a little about minimising resistance in the downswing by keeping arms and club close to the body. And finally, understand how a double pendulum works - you'll then see why a passive wrist release maximises clubhead speed.

Sounds complicated, but the reading is interesting... Once you realise where swing power really comes from, you'll be less inclined to overpower your swing with your arms.

It's mostly a matter of belief in the mechanics and using it to curb your natural instincts....

Originally Posted by TidyFreak

I've struggled with the issue of an arms-dominant swing up until very recently, but finally came to understand the real importance of keeping the arms and body more connected, at which point my swing became more of a swing than a "hit" - much less effort to get some really decent club-head speed.

I didn't work on my hip action even though, like you, it felt wrong (as did my leg action, impact position and follow-through), but rather I worked on the connection. For me, staying properly connected promotes the correct sequence of body actions - hips, legs etc all seem to naturally work how you think they should in a proper golf swing. Also, it eliminated my chicken-wing at impact.

The main "fix" for me on this aspect was paying particular attention to the following, specially the last item. I appreciate this may not apply to you, but I found it so significant that I thought I'd lay it out and it might prove useful to you. So, aside from the normal main keys I focus on :

staying "connected", esp. at the start of the backswing (i.e. arms close to torso), plus ensure a correct plane (not too flat)

calm the back-swing down (I somehow subconsciously swung too fast to compensate for the lack of power in the down-swing)

make a full shoulder turn, but don't overswing or collapse the left arm

a little pause at the top comes naturally if you maintain the connection and start the downswing which now won't start with the arms, but ...

... keep the right elbow in toward your right hip (and don't get too flat here either)

There are plenty of people on here far more capable of describing this idea and if you feel it's missing in your swing then keep plugging away with questions until you get it because, at least to me, this one aspect of the swing has been hugely significant.

Joehuggy (a single-figure handicapper) recently posted on this too : http://thesandtrap.com/t/63148/from-250yard-carry-to-a-275-yard-carry-with-one-change  EDIT : just saw that you posted there so obviously read it already

BTW, in my 4th bullet point I avoided saying what does actually start my down-swing because I'm not entirely sure if it's hips, torso, legs, some combination of those or something else, but i know it's no longer my arms.

TF

Blitz28179,

There are plenty of people who will advise you on the correct swing mechanics, but I'd like to touch on something that you seldom read about, but is so important for you to move forward.

You are now at the crossroads, you either learn how to do it and go on to be the golfer you could be, or don't believe/ don't learn how to do and forever be resigned to the rank of hacker (sorry to be so blunt).

For me, it was ego that stopped me for so long. I knew what I should be doing, I knew the feel, I knew the positions/mechanics, but could I do it? - NO!

I couldn't do it because my ego/self image wouldn't let me. It didn't want me to look bad infront of people (and myself) by hitting shots that would be much worse than my norm.

You have to give up caring where the ball goes and what its flight is (that comes after the basic swing change is in). It takes a hell of a lot of guts to purposefully hit balls that you know make you look so bad. Thats were so many people give up and end up never progressing.

So whenever you practice you have to leave your ego at the door (I mean it), remember you're there to improve not just bash balls. Stop caring about the ballflight, 1-2 practice swings with the feel/mechanics you are working on, then try to put the same feels on a swing through the ball and dont care where the ball goes. A good swing is one that has some of the feelings you are trying to learn, a bad swing is one were you give up (subconciously) and your old feelings/mechanics take over.

Good luck.

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The hip shift should be the first thought during forward swing. If you having been doing it, it might be unnatural at first and need practice.

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To get the hips more forward or involved you need to use the ground pressure more efficiently.  Meaning on the downswing feel like you're crushing a bug under your left toe, pressure into the ground.  What does this do?  It will get the left knee to flex and help the left knee get just outside the ankle.  That pressure also gives you something to extend off of which keeps the hips turning.  Get in a golf posture right now and rehearse a downswing with a flexed left knee.  Notice where the hips and shoulders are pointing, they should be out to the right.  Then into the followthrough you'd just extend the legs.  Start over, take it to the top of the back swing but straighten the left knee right away on the downswing, hips are now aimed left.

Something else that might help is to make sure the left foot is  turned out 30-35 degrees, give the left freedom to flex forward.

Watch my left knee

Good illustration, some technical language, don't worry about that, watch the demonstration and the left knee.  Look at all the ground pressure towards the toes of his left foot.

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Threads like these make me happy with how far I have come with my swing. Stick to it you'll get it. Bug crushing is an interesting drill and fairly accurate assessment.

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I've had the problem of getting my hips involved in the downswing too.

After trying to control the downswing hips involvement I found the solution was easier addressed on the back swing process.

I make sure to COMPLETE my hip turn on the back swing. This creates enough tension such that the down swing is NATURALLY activates the hips and increasing my driving distance.

WARNING: do not over turn the hips and shoulders at the top. Loss of the correct spine and head tilt will result it VERY pitiful shots.

BTW I subscribe to the STACK and TILT swing method id this helps.

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Originally Posted by ChrisGSZ

Your problem will go away once you start believing that power/distance/clubhead speed doesn't come from the strength of your arms. A good first step would be to find a clear explanation of the 'biokinetic chain' and understand how it works. Then read a little about minimising resistance in the downswing by keeping arms and club close to the body. And finally, understand how a double pendulum works - you'll then see why a passive wrist release maximises clubhead speed.

Sounds complicated, but the reading is interesting... Once you realise where swing power really comes from, you'll be less inclined to overpower your swing with your arms.

It's mostly a matter of belief in the mechanics and using it to curb your natural instincts....

Hi Chris

Can you recommend any books/reading material of this sort which deals with everything you have mentioned here, i am very interested in what you have mentioned here

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Appreciate the helpful info.I played a round today and had 5 birdie chances( I only made 1 of 5).I also blew up on 3 holes with 2 triples and a snowman.I am learning this weight shift to the front side.When I do it properly with the driver its really goes along ways, straight and with a penetrating ball flight..Problem is this still feels unatural to me so I catch myself feeling uncomfortable at the top of my backswing and on the downswing I wont get my weight to my left side properly.Thats when I have bad shots.I do see some progress.My bad shots arent as bad as they was a week ago.

Mvmac, That actually makes sense with the knee flex.I can tell you that I am pretty sure I dont have any knee flex in my golf swing.Doing the practice swings you described it did feel good to me.Thanks for the videos.Will try this next time I am on the golf course.

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Spudmonkey, I played in a scramble at my local course 2 weeks ago and hit one of the ugliest tee shots in front of 20 other golfers.I popped it straight up and it went about 40 yards.It actually landed at the ladies tee box lol.I felt like an idiot.Those instances does make you fall back to your old habits..I know for a fact I would have made alot better contact with my old hacker swing.Instead of letting it get me down I stayed with this new swing and now I am seeing alot better improvement.

Quote:

Blitz28179,

There are plenty of people who will advise you on the correct swing mechanics, but I'd like to touch on something that you seldom read about, but is so important for you to move forward.

You are now at the crossroads, you either learn how to do it and go on to be the golfer you could be, or don't believe/ don't learn how to do and forever be resigned to the rank of hacker (sorry to be so blunt).

For me, it was ego that stopped me for so long. I knew what I should be doing, I knew the feel, I knew the positions/mechanics, but could I do it? - NO!

I couldn't do it because my ego/self image wouldn't let me. It didn't want me to look bad infront of people (and myself) by hitting shots that would be much worse than my norm.

You have to give up caring where the ball goes and what its flight is (that comes after the basic swing change is in). It takes a hell of a lot of guts to purposefully hit balls that you know make you look so bad. Thats were so many people give up and end up never progressing.

So whenever you practice you have to leave your ego at the door (I mean it), remember you're there to improve not just bash balls. Stop caring about the ballflight, 1-2 practice swings with the feel/mechanics you are working on, then try to put the same feels on a swing through the ball and dont care where the ball goes. A good swing is one that has some of the feelings you are trying to learn, a bad swing is one were you give up (subconciously) and your old feelings/mechanics take over.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Blitz28179

Spudmonkey, I played in a scramble at my local course 2 weeks ago and hit one of the ugliest tee shots in front of 20 other golfers.I popped it straight up and it went about 40 yards.It actually landed at the ladies tee box lol.I felt like an idiot.Those instances does make you fall back to your old habits..I know for a fact I would have made alot better contact with my old hacker swing.Instead of letting it get me down I stayed with this new swing and now I am seeing alot better improvement.

Quote:

I would say also besides tucking your right elbow from the top, ensure your arms are positioned tightly into the chest and keep this feeling for the left arm the whole time. This helps make the arms and body one unit. Then use that double pendulum/wrist to really whip at the bottom.

But try a few ideas, your bound to browse over things and miss what they actually mean because these are words and we are looking for an experience, trial and error and patience, you can do it if you really put your mind to it.

Good Luck

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