What's wrong with hitting it straight?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Oceanvue

that was a quote from from a post above sans the quotation marks. There I fixed it

Please use the quote functionality.

I'd still like you to answer the questions (clarifications) I asked of you above.

[Paradox]

just because someone sucks at hitting a fade does not mean that a fades can't go as far as draws.

Its really simple, Oceanvue.  If all things were equal except the spin axis was exactly opposite, a fade and a draw travel the same distance..why..because the ball doesn't say "oh, I'm supposed to fade, I better pull up!"

[Oceanvue]

Originally Posted by iacas

Please use the quote functionality.

I'd still like you to answer the questions (clarifications) I asked of you above.

ask it again but without the attitude and you might get an answer

[Oceanvue]

Originally Posted by Ernest Jones

???

Does this supersede everything else you've stated in this thread??

So draws go further because people who play fades suck? Pretty sure Bubba can hit a fade a helluva lot further than I (or pretty much anyone on this forum) can hit a draw.

Here's a quote from Bubba Watson about hitting a long ball

4. Learn To Hit A Draw
Learn to draw the ball If you slice, you're not paying as high a price as players used to with the older equipment. That's because modern drivers don't spin the ball as much, and the ball doesn't spin as much, either. But the lesser penalty for a slice has lulled a lot of amateurs to sleep. The best way to really boom the ball out there is to swing from the inside and turn it over. You'll compress the ball more, and the shot will bore through the wind better. And if you find the right driver, you'll carry the ball farther with a draw than you would with a fade -- another result of modern equipment.

Read More http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2010-07/10-rules-watson#ixzz2KcznLwtG

I've read enough over the last day to acknowledge the difference is not as pronounced as I envisioned and a well struck power fade is a much better "all weather" drive then a draw (I already knew that)

[LuciusWooding]

Originally Posted by Oceanvue

ask it again but without the attitude and you might get an answer

Well it was nice knowing you.

Originally Posted by Oceanvue

I'll bring my buddy Common Sense and we'll make it a foursome

I think you can't count btw. Your "foursome" includes:

1: Oceanvue

2: Paradox

3: Physics

4: Reality

5: Common Sense

I should introduce you to my friend Mathematics. He and I always play matches and he ends up winning due to his fancy scorekeeping.

[David in FL]

ask it again but without the attitude and you might get an answer

[quote name="iacas" url="/t/64720/whats-wrong-with-hitting-it-straight/54#post_808196"] I'd like to ask for clarification here, as I don't believe you said things the way you intended to say them. A swing path that's "outside in" is far, far more commonly seen among faders, slicers, and people who pull the golf ball. A swing path that's "inside out" is far, far more commonly seen among drawers, hookers, and people who push the golf ball. Please clarify what you meant to say in that statement. Thank you. [/quote] Attitude? :-\ I think I've lost interest in whatever else the eyeball has to say......

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Oceanvue

ask it again but without the attitude and you might get an answer

Uhm...

Right then. Moving on.

P.S. What a PGA Tour player says is not "proof" of anything other than that a PGA Tour player said something that was marginally related to golf.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by Oceanvue

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

Please use the quote functionality.

I'd still like you to answer the questions (clarifications) I asked of you above.

ask it again but without the attitude and you might get an answer

That leash just got a lot shorter.

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by Oceanvue

Here's a quote from Bubba Watson about hitting a long ball

While I am sure there are some PGA Tour players with good understanding of the physics behind striking a golf, I would not hang my hat on Bubba being one of them. PGA Tour pros can be just as clueless as you are when it comes to hitting a golf shot. You have to realize that due to recent technologies like Trackman, etc there has been huge changes in what we know happens during the golf swing and contact with the ball. People used to think that draws went farther that fades, we now know that that is simplistic at best and there are numerous other factors involved that actually determine the distance a ball travels.

You just seem to want to argue in the face of logic, and now you have employed the words of a self taught Tour pro whose never had a lesson to try and prove your ridiculous point. Now stop being an ass, realize that you are wrong, and learn from it. Jeez!

[logman]

Originally Posted by iacas

Uhm...

Right then. Moving on.

P.S. What a PGA Tour player says is not "proof" of anything other than that a PGA Tour player said something that was marginally related to golf.

So do as tour players do ......but not as they say???

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by logman

So do as tour players do ......but not as they say???

There are plenty of professional athletes, golfers included, who are great at there sport but are unable to convey what they do.  When I think of all the great swing coaches, I can't think of one of them who has had a successful career on the PGA tour. (I am sure there might be a few here and there)

[logman]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

While I am sure there are some PGA Tour players with good understanding of the physics behind striking a golf, I would not hang my hat on Bubba being one of them. PGA Tour pros can be just as clueless as you are when it comes to hitting a golf shot. You have to realize that due to recent technologies like Trackman, etc there has been huge changes in what we know happens during the golf swing and contact with the ball. People used to think that draws went farther that fades, we now know that that is simplistic at best and there are numerous other factors involved that actually determine the distance a ball travels.

You just seem to want to argue in the face of logic, and now you have employed the words of a self taught Tour pro whose never had a lesson to try and prove your ridiculous point. Now stop being an ass, realize that you are wrong, and learn from it. Jeez!

Ass! Eaze up pal, I think Erik said earlier on that, and I think he used the word "wipey" fade, that most of us would see on our local courses as an example of what a fade is. I'd say 90 % of faders at ams level hit that "wipey" fade and would hit the ball further if they suddenly flipped to hitting draws. My point is there's fades and there's fades. II know if I pin my ears back and hit a fade it'l always be shorter than my draw. And as for trackman data, are we talking pro golfer numbers here, Cause I'd say that lesser players fade numbers would be different.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Is Oceanvue Patrick57?  He seems to use the same pattern of contradiction but in shorter posts.

Didn't patrick once have an alias Oceans-something-or-other?  With some old guy as an avatar?

[logman]

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

There are plenty of professional athletes, golfers included, who are great at there sport but are unable to convey what they do.  When I think of all the great swing coaches, I can't think of one of them who has had a successful career on the PGA tour. (I am sure there might be a few here and there)

Absolutely, but I think we should listen and often interpret what a player is saying. Often players speak in "feel " language. Whether it's "true" or not is sometimes a moot point. Understanding the essence of the feeling, and trying to get to what the player is telling us is IMHO important

.

[tristanhilton85]

Originally Posted by logman

So do as tour players do ......but not as they say???

Actually, you got this one right. Tour players all do certain things very well when it comes to their swings. One thing that they almost all do poorly is describe what they do to hit the ball well. Take Nick Faldo; obviously a tremendous golfer but I wouldn't do what he says you should do to hit a draw...

Originally Posted by logman

Absolutely, but I think we should listen and often interpret what a player is saying. Often players speak in "feel " language. Whether it's "true" or not is sometimes a moot point. Understanding the essence of the feeling, and trying to get to what the player is telling us is IMHO important

.

No. More than likely your feels are different from mine which are different from Bubba's etc... You could be doing your best at doing what Bubba says he is doing or feeling he is doing but be doing something completely different because you feel things differently.

[jamo]

To answer you question I going to share something Dave Wedzik posted on FB the other day.  "With the ball on the ground it is hit before low point (so club is still moving "out") so the draw makes "sense". That said, I don't have a huge preference. Really depends on the player."  So if you start seeing the ball draw you're probably doing something right.  A lot of good players that fade it do it by just aiming a little left at address.  Basically pre-set their path a little left.

My attempt to be on topic: Question to Mike, Erik, and anyone else who wants to chime in: is this quote from Dave (that I remember seeing when he posted it in the 5SK group, thanks to Mike for posting it) the biggest and most important reason for wanting to hit a draw (along with the shot cone stuff potentially)? My thought process went like this: taking out Dave's quote for the point of this paragraph, if your "stock" shot is, say, a 5-yard draw, then that means your face angle and swing path need to be just right to hit that 5-yard draw. But you can say that about any stock shot. To hit a 5-yard fade, a 10-yard fade, a straight shot, etc., each one requires you to have your impact conditions just so. There's nothing special about a straight shot where it requires some sort of magic that a 5-yard fade does not. It's just different. So to that point, if you want an "inline" pattern your swing path at impact is going to be slightly in-to-out via D-Plane and to produce anything else would require shifting the baseline. So there's nothing "wrong" with a straight shot, it's just that it reacquires a teeny bit more manipulation than a draw. Is that reasoning correct?

[NM Golf]

Originally Posted by logman

Ass! Eaze up pal, I think Erik said earlier on that, and I think he used the word "wipey" fade, that most of us would see on our local courses as an example of what a fade is. I'd say 90 % of faders at ams level hit that "wipey" fade and would hit the ball further if they suddenly flipped to hitting draws. My point is there's fades and there's fades. II know if I pin my ears back and hit a fade it'l always be shorter than my draw. And as for trackman data, are we talking pro golfer numbers here, Cause I'd say that lesser players fade numbers would be different.

One, don't tell me to ease up. Two, Erik did cover why the traditional thought is hooks go farther than fades, and why that thinking is flawed, yet the debate continues..

Quote:

So do as tour players do ......but not as they say???

Do you think all race car drivers are mechanics? Do you think all football players are ready to take over as offensive coordinators, are all ex pitchers ready to start coaching, of course not. Just because someone has the natural ability to perform the action does not mean they have to foggiest how they do it. This would especially be true with someone like Bubba who is self taught and does not even work with a coach. I think I read one time he doesn't even look at his swing on video. Bubba is one of my favorite players on tour, but he would be one of the last guys I would ask for a lesson.

[SCfanatic35]

Originally Posted by NM Golf

Do you think all race car drivers are mechanics?

I know, just look at Cole Trickle.