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Satch

Asking about the club

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I was on the course the other day and I asked my friend what club he was going to use for his next shot. He then followed up by saying when you ask another person what club they are going to use it is a penalty, in competition play. I looked at him in disbelief, but just accepted it because I didn't have a rule book with me. Is this true or is he just smoking crack.Thanks for the responses.

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He is not smoking crack. You are not allowed to ask advice from another player during a match. Someone will be by soon with the exact ruling info. But in short, your friend is correct.
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You are not allowed to solicit shot advice and in my understanding you are not allowed to give it either, in competition.  You are allowed to give things like distances from green and yardage because with a little effort all golfers would figure that out, it helps speed up play.

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rule 8-1a & 1b, basically says a golfer can not ask for or give advice from anyone other than his partner or his caddie.

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Originally Posted by Satch

I was on the course the other day and I asked my friend what club he was going to use for his next shot.

7 iron.

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Originally Posted by Satch

I was on the course the other day and I asked my friend what club he was going to use for his next shot. He then followed up by saying when you ask another person what club they are going to use it is a penalty, in competition play. I looked at him in disbelief, but just accepted it because I didn't have a rule book with me. Is this true or is he just smoking crack.Thanks for the responses.

Can't speak to his drug usage, but he's correct. You are not allowed to ask a fellow player what club they hit. This is often disregarded in friendly matches, but in competition, a definite no-no.

Having said that, often there is a 'non-verbal' method used. I've seen guys do this all the time - when a guy hits his shot, just make eye contact with him & give him a little lift of your chin, as if you're saying 'what's up' & if he's cool he'll lift his club up to show you the sole so you can read the number.

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[QUOTE name="Satch" url="/t/64812/asking-about-the-club#post_808876"] I was on the course the other day and I asked my friend what club he was going to use for his next shot. He then followed up by saying when you ask another person what club they are going to use it is a penalty, in competition play. I looked at him in disbelief, but just accepted it because I didn't have a rule book with me. Is this true or is he just smoking crack.Thanks for the responses. [/QUOTE] Having said that, often there is a 'non-verbal' method used. I've seen guys do this all the time - when a guy hits his shot, just make eye contact with him & give him a little lift of your chin, as if you're saying 'what's up' & if he's cool he'll lift his club up to show you the sole so you can read the number.

Or you can just look in his bag to see what he hit....... :-D

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Unless your friend hits every club the exact same distance as you, what does it matter what club they used?

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Unless your friend hits every club the exact same distance as you, what does it matter what club they used?

If you know the other guy's game, it's very helpful. The guy I play with most is much longer than I am, but I can club him as well as myself. If I see him hit a little cut 8 iron. I know that it's the equivalent of a hard 7 for me. Give me 9 holes with you and I'll be able to club you too. A good caddie will be able to do it a lot quicker than that!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satch View Post

I was on the course the other day and I asked my friend what club he was going to use for his next shot. He then followed up by saying when you ask another person what club they are going to use it is a penalty, in competition play. I looked at him in disbelief, but just accepted it because I didn't have a rule book with me. Is this true or is he just smoking crack.Thanks for the responses.

You are not allowed to ask him what he hit before you play, and you are not allowed to tell him what you hit before he plays.  After you have both played you can talk all you want about what each of you used on the previous shot.  The key point is that you are not allowed to give advice which might influence another player in making his stroke, except that you may give information about the rules, the distance to a course feature, or the details about the location of hazards or bunkers.

The rules definition of Advice :

Quote:

Advice

Advice ’’ is any counsel or suggestion that could influence a player in determining his play, the choice of a club or the method of making a stroke .

Information on the Rules , distance or matters of public information, such as the position of hazards or the flagstick on the putting green , is not advice .

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Originally Posted by David in FL

If you know the other guy's game, it's very helpful.

The guy I play with most is much longer than I am, but I can club him as well as myself. If I see him hit a little cut 8 iron. I know that it's the equivalent of a hard 7 for me.

Give me 9 holes with you and I'll be able to club you too. A good caddie will be able to do it a lot quicker than that!

I am not a great golfer, but I am a little confused why this would matter?  Other than the par 3's on a golf course, how many other times are you going to be hitting the same distance and from the same angle as your friend.  Furthermore, how do you know if he hit it perfect or took a little off, hit it thin, off the toe, etc... On a normal day, under pretty normal weather conditions I know what I am going to hit from 155.  I don't need to see what someone else does to determine what I am going to do.  If it's really windy and I see the guy I am with hit what I believe is a good shot, then I will take 1 more club from my bag, or if he flys one over the green I might take 1 less club.  But other than that I am going to play my game because that it was I control.

Can you elaborate?

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Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

But other than that I am going to play my game because that it was I control.

Wow, that is some great English.  I meant, that is what I can control.

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Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

If you know the other guy's game, it's very helpful.

The guy I play with most is much longer than I am, but I can club him as well as myself. If I see him hit a little cut 8 iron. I know that it's the equivalent of a hard 7 for me.

Give me 9 holes with you and I'll be able to club you too. A good caddie will be able to do it a lot quicker than that!

I am not a great golfer, but I am a little confused why this would matter?  Other than the par 3's on a golf course, how many other times are you going to be hitting the same distance and from the same angle as your friend.  Furthermore, how do you know if he hit it perfect or took a little off, hit it thin, off the toe, etc... On a normal day, under pretty normal weather conditions I know what I am going to hit from 155.  I don't need to see what someone else does to determine what I am going to do.  If it's really windy and I see the guy I am with hit what I believe is a good shot, then I will take 1 more club from my bag, or if he flys one over the green I might take 1 less club.  But other than that I am going to play my game because that it was I control.

Can you elaborate?

Once you know how he clubs for a certain distance, you can extrapolate that for your shots, even if you are not the same distance from the target.  If you know how far he normally hits a 7 iron, but you just saw him hit a great shot with it from 10 yards closer than that, then you get the idea that maybe there is a bit of a headwind up  above the trees.  Most players are like you and prefer to play their own game, but there are the occasional characters who will to anything they can to get a perceived advantage, including looking in a companion's bag to see what he hit on a certain shot.

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In our casual weekly rounds, the other guys in my foursome always ask me what club I hit (other than an obvious Driver). I never understand it. One of them hits it further than I, one hits shorter than I, and we have very unsimilar ball flights. But they still always ask. On occasion they even ask for more detailed info, "did you hit it good?", "that sounded a little fat?", "was it a 3/4 six iron or full swing?". I just don't get it. I don't ask for info from them and I don't care. Not because it's against the rules, but because I don't care and I see it rarely helping me even a little bit.
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[QUOTE name="David in FL" url="/t/64812/asking-about-the-club#post_808902"] If you know the other guy's game, it's very helpful. The guy I play with most is much longer than I am, but I can club him as well as myself. If I see him hit a little cut 8 iron. I know that it's the equivalent of a hard 7 for me. Give me 9 holes with you and I'll be able to club you too. A good caddie will be able to do it a lot quicker than that![/QUOTE] I am not a great golfer, but I am a little confused why this would matter?  Other than the par 3's on a golf course, how many other times are you going to be hitting the same distance and from the same angle as your friend.  Furthermore, how do you know if he hit it perfect or took a little off, hit it thin, off the toe, etc... On a normal day, under pretty normal weather conditions I know what I am going to hit from 155.  I don't need to see what someone else does to determine what I am going to do.  If it's really windy and I see the guy I am with hit what I believe is a good shot, then I will take 1 more club from my bag, or if he flys one over the green I might take 1 less club.  But other than that I am going to play my game because that it was I control. Can you elaborate?

As Fourputt said, you can extrapolate based on the results of another player's shot IF you know what club he hit and understand his game well enough. In your example, for instance, if it's windy and your playing partner flies the green, unless you know what club he played as well as what club he would have played had there been no wind, you don't have a basis to make any decision for your shot. He may have added 2 clubs for the wind. If you didn't know that and dropped one club yourself, you're likely to come up woefully short. Think of it this way. You gain information about speed and break watching others putt, even though they may not be on the exact same line or the same distance as you. You can gain similar information to help your decision making through-the-green by observing your playing partners and the results of their shots too. Not just wind either. Uphill/downhill allowances and how well a green holds an approach shot are just a couple of other things that you can learn. All good info that can help an experienced player make better informed decisions about the shot he wants to play.

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Originally Posted by MyrtleBeachGolf

In our casual weekly rounds, the other guys in my foursome always ask me what club I hit (other than an obvious Driver). I never understand it. One of them hits it further than I, one hits shorter than I, and we have very unsimilar ball flights. But they still always ask. On occasion they even ask for more detailed info, "did you hit it good?", "that sounded a little fat?", "was it a 3/4 six iron or full swing?". I just don't get it. I don't ask for info from them and I don't care. Not because it's against the rules, but because I don't care and I see it rarely helping me even a little bit.

Ahhh, but do you tell?   If so, then you are also in violation of the rule.

And I don't think the little signal trick someone mentioned is legal either.  Nonverbal communication is still communication.

Giving a yardage, OTOH, is perfectly legal.

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Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

I am not a great golfer, but I am a little confused why this would matter?  Other than the par 3's on a golf course, how many other times are you going to be hitting the same distance and from the same angle as your friend.  Furthermore, how do you know if he hit it perfect or took a little off, hit it thin, off the toe, etc... On a normal day, under pretty normal weather conditions I know what I am going to hit from 155.  I don't need to see what someone else does to determine what I am going to do.  If it's really windy and I see the guy I am with hit what I believe is a good shot, then I will take 1 more club from my bag, or if he flys one over the green I might take 1 less club.  But other than that I am going to play my game because that it was I control.

Can you elaborate?

Totally agree with you here.  Any extra info from another player is actually going to be detrimental due to the lack of important info that you mentioned.  (How well he hit it, etc.)

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Once you know how he clubs for a certain distance, you can extrapolate that for your shots, even if you are not the same distance from the target.  If you know how far he normally hits a 7 iron, but you just saw him hit a great shot with it from 10 yards closer than that, then you get the idea that maybe there is a bit of a headwind up  above the trees.  Most players are like you and prefer to play their own game, but there are the occasional characters who will to anything they can to get a perceived advantage, including looking in a companion's bag to see what he hit on a certain shot.

But it's not that simple, is it?  For example, a guy who hits a spinnier shot typically.  You may have calibrated your distances in dead air, but if you have a lower boring flight, you're each going to be affected by a headwind totally differently.

I used to play baseball, and I think this is a good comparison:  If one of my teammates is on second base while I'm batting and is trying to steal signs, I don't want to know.  Because there is the chance of him being wrong, if I rely on his info I will potentially be worse off than if I just go it alone.

Originally Posted by David in FL

As Fourputt said, you can extrapolate based on the results of another player's shot IF you know what club he hit and understand his game well enough. In your example, for instance, if it's windy and your playing partner flies the green, unless you know what club he played as well as what club he would have played had there been no wind, you don't have a basis to make any decision for your shot. He may have added 2 clubs for the wind. If you didn't know that and dropped one club yourself, you're likely to come up woefully short.

Think of it this way. You gain information about speed and break watching others putt, even though they may not be on the exact same line or the same distance as you. You can gain similar information to help your decision making through-the-green by observing your playing partners and the results of their shots too. Not just wind either. Uphill/downhill allowances and how well a green holds an approach shot are just a couple of other things that you can learn. All good info that can help an experienced player make better informed decisions about the shot he wants to play.

But all golf balls roll exactly the same way.  You have all of the information you need to get that help on the green, but with his shots in the air, you do not know all you need to know.

Heck, if I was playing with my own clone I wouldn't even want that info unless I know how well he hit it.

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Originally Posted by Golfingdad

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCfanatic35

I am not a great golfer, but I am a little confused why this would matter?  Other than the par 3's on a golf course, how many other times are you going to be hitting the same distance and from the same angle as your friend.  Furthermore, how do you know if he hit it perfect or took a little off, hit it thin, off the toe, etc... On a normal day, under pretty normal weather conditions I know what I am going to hit from 155.  I don't need to see what someone else does to determine what I am going to do.  If it's really windy and I see the guy I am with hit what I believe is a good shot, then I will take 1 more club from my bag, or if he flys one over the green I might take 1 less club.  But other than that I am going to play my game because that it was I control.

Can you elaborate?

Totally agree with you here.  Any extra info from another player is actually going to be detrimental due to the lack of important info that you mentioned.  (How well he hit it, etc.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Once you know how he clubs for a certain distance, you can extrapolate that for your shots, even if you are not the same distance from the target.  If you know how far he normally hits a 7 iron, but you just saw him hit a great shot with it from 10 yards closer than that, then you get the idea that maybe there is a bit of a headwind up  above the trees.  Most players are like you and prefer to play their own game, but there are the occasional characters who will to anything they can to get a perceived advantage, including looking in a companion's bag to see what he hit on a certain shot.

But it's not that simple, is it?  For example, a guy who hits a spinnier shot typically.  You may have calibrated your distances in dead air, but if you have a lower boring flight, you're each going to be affected by a headwind totally differently.

I used to play baseball, and I think this is a good comparison:  If one of my teammates is on second base while I'm batting and is trying to steal signs, I don't want to know.  Because there is the chance of him being wrong, if I rely on his info I will potentially be worse off than if I just go it alone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

As Fourputt said, you can extrapolate based on the results of another player's shot IF you know what club he hit and understand his game well enough. In your example, for instance, if it's windy and your playing partner flies the green, unless you know what club he played as well as what club he would have played had there been no wind, you don't have a basis to make any decision for your shot. He may have added 2 clubs for the wind. If you didn't know that and dropped one club yourself, you're likely to come up woefully short.

Think of it this way. You gain information about speed and break watching others putt, even though they may not be on the exact same line or the same distance as you. You can gain similar information to help your decision making through-the-green by observing your playing partners and the results of their shots too. Not just wind either. Uphill/downhill allowances and how well a green holds an approach shot are just a couple of other things that you can learn. All good info that can help an experienced player make better informed decisions about the shot he wants to play.

But all golf balls roll exactly the same way.  You have all of the information you need to get that help on the green, but with his shots in the air, you do not know all you need to know.

Heck, if I was playing with my own clone I wouldn't even want that info unless I know how well he hit it.

The inference from both myself and David was that you do know the other guy's game.  If not then any such information is worse than useless.  Believe me, if you know his game, then you CAN extrapolate and apply it to yours, especially for helping to judge wind or elevation adjustments.  That can be very useful information and can give you a significant advantage.

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