Raymond Floyd upset at Hall of Fame for inducting 'guys who don't belong'

[caniac6]

Should Freddy's record as Pres. Cup Captain have had any consideration in his HOF induction?

[phan52]

Poor, sorry old Ray. What a curmudgeon. Fred Couples has done more to grow the game of golf than Ray Floyd could ever dream about. It's not only about numbers.

I've always liked Ray. Loved his game and his competitive attitude. But he is just flat out wrong here and should have kept it to himself. I'm sure if Maria was still alive he never would have said that in public.

[Harmonious]

Originally Posted by TourSpoon

Freddy gets into the All Time Coolest Guy Ever to Play Golf HOF, but in the regular HOF his record is not stellar. What is stellar is his appeal and how many people he influenced along the way. They must be giving style points in which he could be winning.

This would certainly make a more interesting Hall of Fame.  And the induction ceremonies would definitely be more fun. My inductees:

1. Walter Hagen

2. Jimmy Demaret

3. Tony Lema

4. Seve

5. Arnold Palmer

6. Darren Clarke

[TourSpoon]

Originally Posted by Harmonious

This would certainly make a more interesting Hall of Fame.  And the induction ceremonies would definitely be more fun. My inductees:

1. Walter Hagen

2. Jimmy Demaret

3. Tony Lema

4. Seve

5. Arnold Palmer

6. Darren Clarke

Yes it would! Although Darren would probably have to wait a few more years...

Off topic...I followed him with Padraig, and Poults last year at the Honda. Multiple majors and a gallery of 20. It worked for me as everyone was trying to get a glimpse of Tiger's group that was drawing the crowds. That threesome great to watch.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by phan52

Poor, sorry old Ray. What a curmudgeon. Fred Couples has done more to grow the game of golf than Ray Floyd could ever dream about. It's not only about numbers.

I've always liked Ray. Loved his game and his competitive attitude. But he is just flat out wrong here and should have kept it to himself. I'm sure if Maria was still alive he never would have said that in public.

What has Fred Couples actually done to "grow the game of golf"? Fred is a cool guy. I love to watch him play and I root for him but he's not an ambassador for the game. Floyd had a much better career and is a quality guy. Very intense and a fine golfer in his prime. He's right, Couples does not deserve to be in the Golf HOF.

[uttexas]

Men's Golf HOF PGA criteria from wiki (there's also separate Champions Tour, International, Lifetime achievement, and Veterans criteria) PGA Tour Current and former PGA Tour and Champions Tour players are eligible for this ballot if they meet the following requirements (beginning with 1996 election): PGA Tour Minimum of 40 years old PGA Tour member for 10 years 10 PGA Tour wins or two wins in the majors or Players Championship Election requirements: Years % of returned ballots needed for election 1996–2000 75% 2001–2003 65% 2004–present 65%, in the event that no candidate receives 65%, the nominee receiving the most votes with at least 50% is elected A few things stand out. Ten PGA tour wins isn't enough (107 players in PGA history meet that requirement) Players Championship equals a major--doesn't sit right with me. The 2004 change that if no candidate receives 65%, the nominee receiving the most over 50% gets in--kind of wimpy

[phan52]

Originally Posted by MSchott

What has Fred Couples actually done to "grow the game of golf"? Fred is a cool guy. I love to watch him play and I root for him but he's not an ambassador for the game. Floyd had a much better career and is a quality guy. Very intense and a fine golfer in his prime. He's right, Couples does not deserve to be in the Golf HOF.

As do many people who found golf because of a affection for Fred, especially among junior golfers. If you ask people on the street who Raymond Floyd is you would most probably get a quizzical look. This same debate was on these boards a couple of months ago about Chi Chi Rodriguez, another guy who didn't win as much as some others, but most probably had far more of an impact on the game of golf in general than a lot of Majors winners. Don't get hung up on the numbers.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by phan52

As do many people who found golf because of a affection for Fred, especially among junior golfers. If you ask people on the street who Raymond Floyd is you would most probably get a quizzical look. This same debate was on these boards a couple of months ago about Chi Chi Rodriguez, another guy who didn't win as much as some others, but most probably had far more of an impact on the game of golf in general than a lot of Majors winners. Don't get hung up on the numbers.

So using that logic we should see Tim Tebow in the NFL Hall of Fame when he retires?

[phan52]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

So using that logic we should see Tim Tebow in the NFL Hall of Fame when he retires?

Tim Tebow can't play NFL football. Are you saying Freddie can't play golf?

[newtogolf]

Quote:

Tim Tebow can't play NFL football. Are you saying Freddie can't play golf?

He's an NFL QB that has generated a lot of press for the sport and has a huge fan base.  You suggested it's not all about Couples numbers, I'm just giving you another example of someone who's career numbers are lackluster but has done a lot for his sports fan base.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Quote:

He's an NFL QB that has generated a lot of press for the sport and has a huge fan base.  You suggested it's not all about Couples numbers, I'm just giving you another example of someone who's career numbers are lackluster but has done a lot for his sports fan base.

But HE CAN'T PLAY! It is a very poor example. And Fred is hardly lackluster. They don't pick lackluster players to Captain the President's Cup.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Tim Tebow can't play NFL football. Are you saying Freddie can't play golf?

He's an NFL QB that has generated a lot of press for the sport and has a huge fan base.  You suggested it's not all about Couples numbers, I'm just giving you another example of someone who's career numbers are lackluster but has done a lot for his sports fan base.

Maybe Freddy doesn't have great numbers, but he does have okay numbers, and more importantly, those numbers meet the criteria for being placed on the ballot.  Tebow doesn't have the numbers, and never will.  Tebow took the Broncos to the playoffs one season with an 8-8 record in the worst division in the NFL, and the team wasn't even as good as that - by all rights they should have been 4-12.  Several of those wins took on the aura of a Biblical miracle, and it is extremely unlikely that such a season will ever happen again.

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by phan52

But HE CAN'T PLAY! It is a very poor example. And Fred is hardly lackluster. They don't pick lackluster players to Captain the President's Cup.

IMO he was selected to Captain the Presidents cup because he's well liked not because he's a great golfer.  I was exaggerating the point using Tebow in response to getting hung up on the numbers.  IMO Couples didn't have the numbers.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

But HE CAN'T PLAY! It is a very poor example. And Fred is hardly lackluster. They don't pick lackluster players to Captain the President's Cup.

IMO he was selected to Captain the Presidents cup because he's well liked not because he's a great golfer.  I was exaggerating the point using Tebow in response to getting hung up on the numbers.  IMO Couples didn't have the numbers.

But he does.  The criteria was posted above, and he meets the requirements.  How can you say anything else.  Maybe you don't agree that the requirements are stringent enough, but that isn't Freddy's fault.  By the criteria of the nomination process and by the voting, he belongs in the HoF.  In the end, that's all that really matters, and Ray Floyd was wrong to even make his feelings known publicly.  It's really none of his business.  Just about as poor a decision as Phil raving about taxes.

[hkgolfer]

Ray Floyd has always been a self important prat.

I can understand there being debate about criteria, but why one would feel the need to go public I'm not sure.  Except for his "hall of fame ego".  I have a friend who drew Floyd in a pro-Am many years ago and was quite excited.  However, the reality was that he was an absolutely self-absorbed moron and refused to speak to his pro-Am partners throughout the round.  Glad to see that he is at least consistent.

Fred Couples has been one of the most important players in the game in his generation and he is adored by fans.  Ask 100 fans whose display they would rather visit at a Hall of Fame and most would say 'Freddie' hands down.  In addition to his wins he played in multiple Ryder and President's Cups and is a two-time winning Captain of the US team.  He also represented the US (with DL3)  in the early years of the World Cup and won several.  And - by the way - the World Golf Hall of Fame (and I will come back to the importance of "World" in a moment) is supposed to be a place that attracts people to the site and to the game.  So maybe someone wildly popular with fans the world over is actually an important candidate.

As for 'Monty', I must confess that I am not a huge fan but he did win the European Tour Order of Merit SIX times in a row.  He has one of most impressive Ryder Cup records in history including captaining a winning side and has won many times around the world.  Say what you want, but it is not ridiculous for someone with that kind of record to be considered.

As a final note - this is the WORLD Golf Hall of Fame.  Therefore, golf achievements around the world are relevant.  Not just on the US Tour.  Ray Floyd's bias (it's all about what you do in the US) is symptomatic of why the US continues to get their assess handed to them in the Ryder Cup.

Do us all a favor Ray - take your grumpy old man act somewhere else !

[newtogolf]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

But he does.  The criteria was posted above, and he meets the requirements.  How can you say anything else.  Maybe you don't agree that the requirements are stringent enough, but that isn't Freddy's fault.  By the criteria of the nomination process and by the voting, he belongs in the HoF.  In the end, that's all that really matters, and Ray Floyd was wrong to even make his feelings known publicly.  It's really none of his business.  Just about as poor a decision as Phil raving about taxes.

You're right he has the numbers to minimally qualify.  I do believe the requirements aren't stringent enough for a HoF, but that's my opinion and I don't influence the decision to change it.  Ray probably shouldn't have called out Couples and instead just focused on his concerns with the requirements being too lax since Freddy is so well liked.

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by hkgolfer

Ray Floyd has always been a self important prat.

I can understand there being debate about criteria, but why one would feel the need to go public I'm not sure.  Except for his "hall of fame ego".  I have a friend who drew Floyd in a pro-Am many years ago and was quite excited.  However, the reality was that he was an absolutely self-absorbed moron and refused to speak to his pro-Am partners throughout the round.  Glad to see that he is at least consistent.

Fred Couples has been one of the most important players in the game in his generation and he is adored by fans.  Ask 100 fans whose display they would rather visit at a Hall of Fame and most would say 'Freddie' hands down.  In addition to his wins he played in multiple Ryder and President's Cups and is a two-time winning Captain of the US team.  He also represented the US (with DL3)  in the early years of the World Cup and won several.  And - by the way - the World Golf Hall of Fame (and I will come back to the importance of "World" in a moment) is supposed to be a place that attracts people to the site and to the game.  So maybe someone wildly popular with fans the world over is actually an important candidate.

As for 'Monty', I must confess that I am not a huge fan but he did win the European Tour Order of Merit SIX times in a row.  He has one of most impressive Ryder Cup records in history including captaining a winning side and has won many times around the world.  Say what you want, but it is not ridiculous for someone with that kind of record to be considered.

As a final note - this is the WORLD Golf Hall of Fame.  Therefore, golf achievements around the world are relevant.  Not just on the US Tour.  Ray Floyd's bias (it's all about what you do in the US) is symptomatic of why the US continues to get their assess handed to them in the Ryder Cup.

Do us all a favor Ray - take your grumpy old man act somewhere else !

+1

Well thought out and well written.   Montgomery doesn't get much respect here in the US, both because of his lack of success here, and because his inability to shrug off the heckling made him too much of a target.  He never seemed to quite come to grips with the differences in the fans here, or understand that they were naturally going to root for the home guys.  I think if he had just ignored the early rowdiness of some fans, his time here would have been more pleasant in the long run.  As it is, no matter what his accreditation, Monty will never be a fan favorite on this side of the pond.

[MSchott]

Originally Posted by hkgolfer

Ray Floyd has always been a self important prat.

I can understand there being debate about criteria, but why one would feel the need to go public I'm not sure.  Except for his "hall of fame ego".  I have a friend who drew Floyd in a pro-Am many years ago and was quite excited.  However, the reality was that he was an absolutely self-absorbed moron and refused to speak to his pro-Am partners throughout the round.  Glad to see that he is at least consistent.

Fred Couples has been one of the most important players in the game in his generation and he is adored by fans.  Ask 100 fans whose display they would rather visit at a Hall of Fame and most would say 'Freddie' hands down.  In addition to his wins he played in multiple Ryder and President's Cups and is a two-time winning Captain of the US team.  He also represented the US (with DL3)  in the early years of the World Cup and won several.  And - by the way - the World Golf Hall of Fame (and I will come back to the importance of "World" in a moment) is supposed to be a place that attracts people to the site and to the game.  So maybe someone wildly popular with fans the world over is actually an important candidate.

As for 'Monty', I must confess that I am not a huge fan but he did win the European Tour Order of Merit SIX times in a row.  He has one of most impressive Ryder Cup records in history including captaining a winning side and has won many times around the world.  Say what you want, but it is not ridiculous for someone with that kind of record to be considered.

As a final note - this is the WORLD Golf Hall of Fame.  Therefore, golf achievements around the world are relevant.  Not just on the US Tour.  Ray Floyd's bias (it's all about what you do in the US) is symptomatic of why the US continues to get their assess handed to them in the Ryder Cup.

Do us all a favor Ray - take your grumpy old man act somewhere else !

Fred Couples has not been one of the "most important" players in his generation, he has been one of the most popular of his generation. He won 15 tournaments over a 25 year career. That's far from significant. The argument in this thread is really not about Fred but about the lax requirements for getting into the World Golf HOF. HOF membership should not be a popularity or personality contest, it should be a difficult accomplishment available to select great golfers.