What is your swing speed and carry?

[buddhabob]

Pretzel, its an interesting topic and I appreciate your insights and high intelligence. Key in long driving is the relative squat at the top of the down swing that converts to a very powerful vertical push upwards at impact into the ball. All long hitters use this motion. They are doing what javellin throwers do which is crating and summoning ground reaction energy that then moves up thru the body and out thru the hands and the object being 'thrown'. In the martial arts this is referred to as a kind of circular earth energy  coming up thru the soles of the feet and out thru the hands. Boxers it to great effect as do golfers once they get the hang of it. This energy generation cannot be meausured by a Trackman because it does not correlate directly with clubhead speed. Testing at the Titelist Performance Institute uses ground reaction tests to get an idea of how far one's potential might be in distance off the tee. Take two people and have each one step on a horse scale and try and create as high a push load as possible. The strongest one will displace the most energy and he will also displace the most earth energy at impact imo given the same swing speeds. Carl Wolter won a long drive title twice, once defeating a considerably faster opponent who had similar launch and spin ratios. When asked how he did it he said he was able to summon more power from the ground up because he was trained in college as an All-American javellin thrower.

[saevel25]

If I had to guess, my swing speed averages around 115-117 mph. My carry is about 290-295

[cipher]

If I had to guess, my swing speed averages around 115-117 mph. My carry is about 290-295

That is some speed!  I am pretty weak. I swing it about 98-100 and carry it 240ish with relatively calm and flat conditions.

[iacas]

This energy generation cannot be meausured by a Trackman because it does not correlate directly with clubhead speed.

Okay dude… Not sure what you're smokin' but it must be good stuff.

Testing at the Titelist Performance Institute uses ground reaction tests to get an idea of how far one's potential might be in distance off the tee. Take two people and have each one step on a horse scale and try and create as high a push load as possible. The strongest one will displace the most energy and he will also displace the most earth energy at impact imo given the same swing speeds. Carl Wolter won a long drive title twice, once defeating a considerably faster opponent who had similar launch and spin ratios. When asked how he did it he said he was able to summon more power from the ground up because he was trained in college as an All-American javellin thrower.

Uhm, no. There's no mythical force. Sorry. It's clubhead speed and impact/launch conditions.

GRF is simply used in two ways:

1. Parametric acceleration.
2. Torque about the COM.

More the latter than the former, too.

Earth energy, ha ha. Good one.

[Golfingdad]

Actually its opposite.  If you look at the top 12 longest drivers of the ball last year. 11 out of the 12 golfers had a higher GIR % than the PGA Tour Average.

Basically closer to the hole offsets the penalties for being out of position. Odds play in favor to those who can hit it farther.

Yes, but how does that translate to scoring?

At the Tour level, where they hit 3/4 of their fairways and 2/3 of their greens, and when they miss fairways, it's a few yards here and there on average, I totally agree with everything you said, and I'm sure the guys with the higher GIR percentage score really well.

But down at my level, where I'm hitting 1/3 of my fairways and 40-50% of my greens, and more importantly, my misses are a lot more wild, and potentially lead to penalty shots or punch outs, it would seem to me that it's a lot more important to reign that driver into (or at least near) the fairway even if it costs me some yards.

Missed greens from further back in the fairway lead to a tough par, or usually (certainly not always ;)) a bogey at worst.  Wild misses with the driver are usually what lead to my "others."

Of course, I'm assuming you're talking about distance as a strategy.  But as a skill I agree 100% with you.  To your last sentence ... it's a nice luxury to have to be able to hit less than driver on some holes to keep it in the fairway, and still get decent distance out of it.

If I had to guess, my swing speed averages around 115-117 mph. My carry is about 290-295

That is some speed!  I am pretty weak. I swing it about 98-100 and carry it 240ish with relatively calm and flat conditions.

Yeah, seriously.  Matt has got some power!  I'm going to guess (only been on Trackman with a driver once) that I'm averaging 106-107 and my carry is 250 ish.

[burner]

why is that funny?

Read this to find out.

http://www.randa.org/en/RandA/News/News/2013/May/Drive-Distance.aspx

'Aint that the truth, from the guys who know.

[saevel25]

Yes, but how does that translate to scoring?

At the Tour level, where they hit 3/4 of their fairways and 2/3 of their greens, and when they miss fairways, it's a few yards here and there on average, I totally agree with everything you said, and I'm sure the guys with the higher GIR percentage score really well.

But down at my level, where I'm hitting 1/3 of my fairways and 40-50% of my greens, and more importantly, my misses are a lot more wild, and potentially lead to penalty shots or punch outs, it would seem to me that it's a lot more important to reign that driver into (or at least near) the fairway even if it costs me some yards.

Missed greens from further back in the fairway lead to a tough par, or usually (certainly not always ;)) a bogey at worst.  Wild misses with the driver are usually what lead to my "others."

Of course, I'm assuming you're talking about distance as a strategy.  But as a skill I agree 100% with you.  To your last sentence ... it's a nice luxury to have to be able to hit less than driver on some holes to keep it in the fairway, and still get decent distance out of it.

Yeah, seriously.  Matt has got some power!  I'm going to guess (only been on Trackman with a driver once) that I'm averaging 106-107 and my carry is 250 ish.

I guess it has to do with your game. If I hit a penalty shot off the tee once ever 50 shots. Then I will take the chance for extra distance. If you are Kyle who hits 3-4 penalty shots a round, then take what you need that wont harm you. Its about figuring out where you can gain the best stroke advantage. For me its using my power as much as possible.

As for the PGA tour players. In 2014, driving distance versus proximity to the hole is about a wash. There is a slight advantage for distance, something like about an extra foot closer, but average proximity was like 35 feet.

Yea, years of over turning and over swinging, I got some serious hip torque. Though changing to the SLDR helped a ton as well.

[buddhabob]

god forbid anyone should question the money machine known as the Trackman which is wildly over prescribed by swing preachers and club fitters to untold armies of average golfers  as just another avenue to generate profits. To the extent that science can track distance accurately they have done extensive studies at the Titletist Performance Institute and derived 3 different physical tasks they test  clients with. If you are an Eddie Bauer swing preacher with stick arms and a pot belly you should get a doctor's signed approval before attempting the test. All the tests involve ground force reactions and the ability of the person to summon them. Hint, if your vertical jump is less than 9 inches, please do not attempt.

[saevel25]

god forbid anyone should question the money machine known as the Trackman which is wildly over prescribed by swing preachers and club fitters to untold armies of average golfers  as just another avenue to generate profits. To the extent that science can track distance accurately they have done extensive studies at the Titletist Performance Institute and derived 3 different physical tasks they test  clients with. If you are an Eddie Bauer swing preacher with stick arms and a pot belly you should get a doctor's signed approval before attempting the test. All the tests involve ground force reactions and the ability of the person to summon them. Hint, if your vertical jump is less than 9 inches, please do not attempt.

Tell that to Sadlowski who bombs a 330 yard drive from his knees!!! Ground force reaction, really? He took the ground force out of the equation and still crushed it because of one thing, CLUB HEAD SPEED!!!!

[dchoye]

Sadlowski is pretty amazing. He can drive 300 yards with his putter too standing upright.

I remember watching a segment of playing lesson with the pros where JB Holmes drove off his knees too , I think he was about 300 yards off his knees.

Standing up probably gives slightly more swing speed and yardage .

I agree you have consider how important is ground forces in the whole scheme of driving?

[Pretzel]

The only thing I can think that you might be talking about when you say "ground forces" is when a golfer (especially prominent on the LPGA Tour) pushes up onto their toes through impact. Is this what you're referring to when you say "ground forces", the act of pushing against the ground in a slightly diagonal path (partially forward, mostly up) through impact.

[14ledo81]

The only thing I can think that you might be talking about when you say "ground forces" is when a golfer (especially prominent on the LPGA Tour) pushes up onto their toes through impact. Is this what you're referring to when you say "ground forces", the act of pushing against the ground in a slightly diagonal path (partially forward, mostly up) through impact.

I think he means the good Zen-like energy that Mother earth provides.

[saevel25]

I think he means the good Zen-like energy that Mother earth provides.

Does that mean I can bitch at mother earth next time I don't crank one down the fairway I can yell, "Where the H*** was my ground reaction forces!!!"

[Pretzel]

Does that mean I can bitch at mother earth next time I don't crank one down the fairway I can yell, "Where the H*** was my ground reaction forces!!!"

Always good to have a full arsenal of excuses at your disposal!

[dbrock504]

What is your average and max swing speed? What flex shaft do you use? I have been training hard for the past year and my swing speed increased dramatically.

Average ~118

Max ~125

X-stiff Proforce V2/ 907 D2 8.5*

I average about 275 carry. My favorite though is walking out to the 100yd marker on a 400ish yd hole and seeing your ball mark next to the ball

My average swing speed is 107 max 111. Shaft is the stock shaft that comes in the Callaway X Hot driver. It's a Stiff flex and the loft on the 460cc head is 9.5*. The club has 3 settings, Open, Standard, or Closed Lie. I play Standard.

I average about 260 carry. I usually get 300ish 1-2 times per round. That's really not the common goal though. I would be more content keeping it on the fairway more around 250-275. I'm working on slowing it down a bit. Speaking of which, off to the range!

[Spyder]

Does that mean I can bitch at mother earth next time I don't crank one down the fairway I can yell, "Where the H*** was my ground reaction forces!!!"

Scream that out loud at this year's NE Ohio/Erie outing and I am buying you your first 3 beers. I would absolutely lose it.

[saevel25]

Scream that out loud at this year's NE Ohio/Erie outing and I am buying you your first 3 beers. I would absolutely lose it.

If i remember you are on!

[Abu3baid]

My average swing speed is 107 max 111. Shaft is the stock shaft that comes in the Callaway X Hot driver. It's a Stiff flex and the loft on the 460cc head is 9.5*. The club has 3 settings, Open, Standard, or Closed Lie. I play Standard. I average about 260 carry. I usually get 300ish 1-2 times per round. That's really not the common goal though. I would be more content keeping it on the fairway more around 250-275. I'm working on slowing it down a bit. Speaking of which, off to the range!

Not the place to discuss it since this is more of a swing speed thread, but I doubt you "average" anywhere near 250.. You could possibly say that when you actually hit it well you might get it near 250, but when you talk about average you need to consider those hits plus your 30 yard worm burners and the 100 yard then 60 yard slice shots.. Don't forget the duff shots off the t you probably hit too.. Just saying