'Not good enough' for MP 53's?

[Prodaytrader]

the story continues.....

I went back to Dicks armed....so well armed. I'm in a small town and during dinner I happened to notice the golf pro was eating at the same restaurant. So I decided to sneak back over to Dicks thinking I might get a different salesman. I did.

I took my 6 iron, I grabbed a MP 69, MP 59, JPX 825 and a JPX 825 PRO. I currently use something more like the JPX 825 only without the weight difference. The swing weight in the 825 seems much lower or heavier, I cant tell which.  I did in fact consistently hit cleaner shots with the JPX 825 Pro. I really liked the feel of it. I must say though...of all the nicest shots I had, I hit 85 my wife says, the longest, loftiest shots and most fun...were from the MP 69.  It's a different kind of club for sure. I picked it up 4 times after each try with the other clubs. Each time I picked it up, I out shot whatever I just did with the previous iron. It feels lighter by far when compared to the 825 pro, but I can still hit that son of ball clean enough to knock it stiff 180 with a hang time that would put A.J. Trapasso to shame.

I all but settled on the MP 69 and was thinking about shafts when I decided to engage the new sales agent. So what's the process I ask for purchasing these clubs? We get you fitted he says. Ok lets fit I say. It costs 50 dollars but will be waived he says, fair enough, what now. He hooks me back up to the Mizuno swing tester thing that lost the sale in the first place, so I say to him, I have already done this 'test' and what it will say is, not to buy the MP 69. So I ask, how do I learn what shaft to use on the club head I have selected. No other way he says other then to use this machine and if you don't buy the clubs I will have to charge you 50 bucks. So I say back, well I already did this once today, they didn't charge me 50 dollars, and I'm telling you that machine is going to cost you a 1000 dollar sale, for the second time today! Is there no other way to get this information I ask. No he says! I all but lost it.

Why is this such a difficult process? I knocked every damn one of those balls 140 to 180 yards in a cluster 20 yards wide. I would have been pleased to see each one on the course but after careful testing and weighing all the factors I want the MP 69. What's so complicated about this??? I saw it with my own eyes, I used my own club, I knocked the MP 69's out of the park, why would I not want that club?

How do I find the right shaft should I be forced to order online? Is there not two polar opposite shafts that I can use to compare like I did to select the club head? From there maybe narrow it down to one or two choices but surely there are see-able or feel-able differences I can measure for myself.

[Kujan]

I think the purpose of the test is to determine the shaft flex. Relax, they know you want the MPs.

[Mordan]

  Prodaytrader said:

Originally Posted by Prodaytrader

the story continues.....

Why is this such a difficult process? I knocked every damn one of those balls 140 to 180 yards in a cluster 20 yards wide. I would have been pleased to see each one on the course but after careful testing and weighing all the factors I want the MP 69. What's so complicated about this??? I saw it with my own eyes, I used my own club, I knocked the MP 69's out of the park, why would I not want that club?

How do I find the right shaft should I be forced to order online? Is there not two polar opposite shafts that I can use to compare like I did to select the club head? From there maybe narrow it down to one or two choices but surely there are see-able or feel-able differences I can measure for myself.

This whole story is rather odd. 140 to 180 is a very wide range to be hitting a 6 iron. Not many greens are 40 yards deep.

What shaft was in your test club? If you were really happy with how you were hitting it then just get the same shafts. Personally I'd find the nearest Mizuno fitting facility and go there if I was you, but you don't seem too keen on the recommendations that you're getting anyway.

[colin007]

Yeah, something about this whole thread smells slightly fishy...

[jamo]

  Prodaytrader said:

Simple physics would dictate that a larger sweet spot means less mass across the entire sweet spot thus less of a sweet spot if the club remains the same weight.

Physics would dictate that what we call the "sweet spot" is a singular, dimensionless point in space that cannot be made larger and cannot have a weight distribution behind it. It's just the CoG in 3D space.

[Prodaytrader]

Well, give me a break. I was in boots, I used at least 5 different clubs, my wife & kids present and once again I'm on stage. At every turn, even these comments, I for some reason continue to have to justify the purchase. At what club would I receive less grief on?

Is there a preferred method of testing shafts? I'm clearly in this boat alone.

S200...S something? stock shaft, steel I believe. The only reason I even desire to look at shafts other then steel is because number 1, lots of pros use them, number 2 I understand they are geared for people with slower swing speeds or joint issues which I have. So I thought maybe fiber would be a better choice. I have yet to test different shafts.

What good is their swing optimizer if I don't trust it or I can't produce on demand my best swing thus giving it the data it needs. I get tempo, swing path, releases...yada yada...can I produce it on que when somebody says snap? No I cant. But then that's why I'm not Tiger. It doesn't mean I can't produce a beautiful shot from time to time and the rest of the time I will live with a 150 average 6 iron from a club designed to do 180. Maybe someday I will be able to maximize it's potential. I'll continue to work the chip game and putting so as to bring the handicap down thus justifying the desire for maximum feedback irons.

At this point I'm tempted to go to Wal-Mart and see what they have.

[Prodaytrader]

  jamo said:

Originally Posted by jamo

Physics would dictate that what we call the "sweet spot" is a singular, dimensionless point in space that cannot be made larger and cannot have a weight distribution behind it. It's just the CoG in 3D space.

So there is no mass behind the sweet spot? No force being accelerated through that specific point in space. No attempt on our part to push our mass through the club to generate club head speed and into the ball? Just a zero sum game where we attempt to not fall over as we swing widely right, transfer our weight evenly through CoG and then back through to the left. No torque applied to the ball inducing spin, or oval shaped swing paths designed to strike the ball at an off angle. None of that applies to golf? I assume a tennis racket will produce the same results then or perhaps a hockey stick would be a better tool.

How do you select a shaft? I must needs find an exit quick, I am far from home!  It's my user name isn't it? I haven't traded stocks in 5 years. I don't need too any longer. Does that help you guys better help me find a shaft? :) lol

[iacas]

  Prodaytrader said:

Originally Posted by Prodaytrader

So there is no mass behind the sweet spot?

In some clubs the "sweet spot" is not contained in the clubhead. That's entirely possible.

But generally speaking, you misunderstood the point he was making. Please stop talking about things you don't seem to understand. The "sweet spot" is infinitely small, technically. It's the center of gravity of the clubhead. It's a point in 3D space.

[jamo]

  Prodaytrader said:

So there is no mass behind the sweet spot? No force being accelerated through that specific point in space. No attempt on our part to push our mass through the club to generate club head speed and into the ball? Just a zero sum game where we attempt to not fall over as we swing widely right, transfer our weight evenly through CoG and then back through to the left. No torque applied to the ball inducing spin, or oval shaped swing paths designed to strike the ball at an off angle. None of that applies to golf? I assume a tennis racket will produce the same results then or perhaps a hockey stick would be a better tool. How do you select a shaft? I must needs find an exit quick, I am far from home!  It's my user name isn't it? I haven't traded stocks in 5 years. I don't need too any longer. Does that help you guys better help me find a shaft? :) lol

This is all pretty simple particle physics. At that one exact point, no. A point is dimensionless, so there cannot be mass behind it. But golf club/ball collision happens over a finite area. That's where force, mass, speed, etc. come in, and why they can be modeled. I was just getting a bit technical. I have a minor pet peeve about the fact that we talk about "enlarging the sweet spot" and stuff like that. Especially when people preface that with "physics tells us..."

[Mordan]

  Prodaytrader said:

Originally Posted by Prodaytrader

Well, give me a break. I was in boots, I used at least 5 different clubs, my wife & kids present and once again I'm on stage. At every turn, even these comments, I for some reason continue to have to justify the purchase. At what club would I receive less grief on?

Is there a preferred method of testing shafts? I'm clearly in this boat alone.

S200...S something? stock shaft, steel I believe. The only reason I even desire to look at shafts other then steel is because number 1, lots of pros use them, number 2 I understand they are geared for people with slower swing speeds or joint issues which I have. So I thought maybe fiber would be a better choice. I have yet to test different shafts.

What good is their swing optimizer if I don't trust it or I can't produce on demand my best swing thus giving it the data it needs. I get tempo, swing path, releases...yada yada...can I produce it on que when somebody says snap? No I cant. But then that's why I'm not Tiger. It doesn't mean I can't produce a beautiful shot from time to time and the rest of the time I will live with a 150 average 6 iron from a club designed to do 180. Maybe someday I will be able to maximize it's potential. I'll continue to work the chip game and putting so as to bring the handicap down thus justifying the desire for maximum feedback irons.

At this point I'm tempted to go to Wal-Mart and see what they have.

You came on here with your mind made up looking for validation of your choice.

You feel like you're being made to "justify" your purchase because well meaning people are telling you what you don't want to hear, that there are almost certainly other clubheads that are a better match for you from a technical point of view.

The "feedback" isn't going to make you a better golfer, they don't have a larger sweet spot than cavity backs (you got the physics backwards), your swing doesn't actually change much from swing to swing (the results definitely do though) so the shaft optimiser works even if you don't hit your best shots each time. But you don't want to hear this.

If you really want the MP-59s just go buy them. You won't take anyone else's advice, so why do you need their validation to go ahead with your purchase?

[Prodaytrader]

I don't know how made up my mind was. I started the day thinking 59, asked about 53 and ended at 69 and am now thinking I really mean 64. These numbers are pissing me off! I am not looking for a larger sweet spot or over sized head. I have no problems hitting with the thinner head and want my hands to sting like like a mother when I get lazy. Am I the only one who struggles with intensity? I have lazy swings, goto swings, nono swings, watch this swings, oops my bad swings and finally the famous: don't you whiff this shot for fear of being burned at the stake swings. All of it centers on focus and intensity, at least for me. I expect to be punished on lazy days in an effort to force myself to be more intense. When I'm on, I'm on and I'll play for money, lose but whatever. I'm getting there. Why do I want to enable bad swing styles? I already have a cavity set and a mid set so if I dont like blades i can switch back. I'll even carry an extra set in the car for insurance to keep the den mothers happy. I read some essays on shaft selection. Apparently I'll need to measure the distance between my Johnson and the floor, desired shaft length, flex point and finally something about butt angles. In my day we just said, 'Hows it hangin?' yea seriously no help Mr 40 years of shaft study. My OP had something to do with a preception of not being worthy. I think I have a better understanding of where that idea comes from. I do write a lot but I find that to be an easy task even on an iPhone, plus I kept it to one thread, with a singular purpose and make the promise to disappear once I am satisfied I have acquired enough information. Plus my lava bucket is empty???

[logman]

This is great.

[big stoke]

You can't make this stuff up.

[colin007]

  logman said:

This is great.

It's funny because that's how we feel about you sometimes... ;-)

[chico713]

My suggestion is you buy the most beautiful, buttery feeling Mizuno irons you can find. Have them fitted for lie angle, shaft flex, and grip size. Then go play, knowing your desire for maximum satisfaction when you hit your best shot will be fulfilled to the highest degree. Don't let anyone else tell you what you want. Only you know that. Life is short

[Righty to Lefty]

For some reason I have read every single post in this thread !!

[bplewis24]

  Prodaytrader said:

Originally Posted by Prodaytrader

Am I the only one who struggles with intensity? I have lazy swings, goto swings, nono swings, watch this swings, oops my bad swings and finally the famous: don't you whiff this shot for fear of being burned at the stake swings.

My advice would be to use your goto swing most of the time.  That's what I would do.  Especially if the shot calls for a draw, fade or a skippie.

Anyway, I don't see why this is such a big deal nor why the purchase is so complicated.  I don't care how poor you swing, if you want the MP69s or MP59s and go in to buy them, you should be walking out with them when you insist your mind is made up.  It sounds to me like you're getting sensitive or offended when they try and change your mind and immediately give up and walk out.  If that's the case, buy them online somewhere.  It's pretty easy to put them in your shopping cart and then check out.

Now, if you should be buying them or not is another story for another thread.  But to me it sounds like your mind is made up.

[notsohard]

  Prodaytrader said:

Originally Posted by Prodaytrader

I don't know how made up my mind was. I started the day thinking 59, asked about 53 and ended at 69 and am now thinking I really mean 64. These numbers are pissing me off!

you need a stiff drink