• Announcements

    • iacas

      Introducing TST "Clubs!"   08/28/2017

      No, we're not getting into the equipment business, but we do have "clubs" here on TST now. Groups. Check them out here:
Sign in to follow this  
madolive3

Relief From Relief ?

Recommended Posts

Friend hit a tee shot out of bounds on a hill, the ball rolled down the hill and stopped on the inbounds side of the fence, but up against the fence. I told him he gets relief from the fence. He drops and the ball rolls down the hill and lands on the cart path. There was no way he could drop on the hill and prevent that ball from landing on the path. I told him that I didn't know the rule and that he should play off the cart path.

He could've redropped all day and that ball would've ended up on that path every time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

Sign up (or log in) today! It's free (and you won't see this ad anymore)!

First of all,  the status of the fence must be determined.  If the fence was what defined out of bounds, then he shouldn't have gotten relief.  Fences or walls defining out of bounds are not obstructions.  In that case, any relief would be under Rule 28, Ball unplayable, and would incur a penalty stroke.

If the fence is not the margin defining out of bounds, then he would be entitled to relief without penalty under Rule 24.  He must locate the nearest point of complete relief for lie, stance, and area of intended swing  from the obstruction.  He is allowed one clublength from that point, no nearer to the hole, for his drop area.  If the ball, after dropping, rolls more than 2 clublengths or rolls closer to the hole than the nearest point of relief, or rolls back into a condition of interference with the same obstruction, then it must be redropped.  If it does the same after the second drop, the ball must be placed where it first hit the ground.

If the ball doesn't roll more than 2 clublengths, and doesn't roll nearer to the hole, then it is in play, and if there is interference with another obstruction, then he would be allowed to take relief under Rule 24 for that second condition.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Fourputt

First of all,  the status of the fence must be determined.  If the fence was what defined out of bounds, then he shouldn't have gotten relief.  Fences or walls defining out of bounds are not obstructions.  In that case, any relief would be under Rule 28, Ball unplayable, and would incur a penalty stroke.

If the fence is not the margin defining out of bounds, then he would be entitled to relief without penalty under Rule 24.  He must locate the nearest point of complete relief for lie, stance, and area of intended swing  from the obstruction.  He is allowed one clublength from that point, no nearer to the hole, for his drop area.  If the ball, after dropping, rolls more than 2 clublengths or rolls closer to the hole than the nearest point of relief, or rolls back into a condition of interference with the same obstruction, then it must be redropped.  If it does the same after the second drop, the ball must be placed where it first hit the ground.

If the ball doesn't roll more than 2 clublengths, and doesn't roll nearer to the hole, then it is in play, and if there is interference with another obstruction, then he would be allowed to take relief under Rule 24 for that second condition.

Just clarifying - he would only get relief from the fence as an obstruction if the fence was on the golf course, ie, not out of bounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick add-on question: player's ball is in a hazard (small drainage ditch) and his swing is affected by an obstruction outside the hazard (staked tree). There is no area within the hazard and not closer to the hole that offers relief -- what does he do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Stretch

Quick add-on question: player's ball is in a hazard (small drainage ditch) and his swing is affected by an obstruction outside the hazard (staked tree). There is no area within the hazard and not closer to the hole that offers relief -- what does he do?

You don't get relief from an obstruction when your ball is in a hazard.

Exception to rule 24-2:

Note 1: If a ball is in a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard ), the player may not take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction . The player must play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 26-1 .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, that's what I thought. (And told my mate Roy, who was in the ditch. He grumbled all the rest of the way round. )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Mordan

You don't get relief from an obstruction when your ball is in a hazard.

Exception to rule 24-2:

Note 1: If a ball is in a water hazard (including a lateral water hazard), the player may not take relief from interference by an immovable obstruction. The player must play the ball as it lies or proceed under Rule 26-1.

However, a staked tree is not an obstruction.  If there is a local Rule for staked trees, it tells us to take relief as if it was an obstruction, but does not define the staked tree as an obstruction.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by rogolf

However, a staked tree is not an obstruction.  If there is a local Rule for staked trees, it tells us to take relief as if it was an obstruction, but does not define the staked tree as an obstruction.

Are you implying that that changes the ruling?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Originally Posted by Stretch

Quote:

Originally Posted by rogolf

However, a staked tree is not an obstruction.  If there is a local Rule for staked trees, it tells us to take relief as if it was an obstruction, but does not define the staked tree as an obstruction.

Are you implying that that changes the ruling?

Not sure why he threw that in.  Normally staked trees are still trees, and only the stakes and guy wires are obstructions, and they are usually movable obstructions.  You would proceed under Rule 24-1 - pull the stake, make your shot, then replace the stake.  For preservation of the course and protection of the tree, the committee may declare the stakes to be immovable obstructions.  In that case, relief is taken under Rule 24-2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Young trees requiring protection are not always staked. The may simply be marked with a tie or paint. If they are staked, the stake would almost certainly fastened to the tree, making the stake an IO.

Relief for a YTRP would normally be available under 24-2 but 24-2 does not apply when the ball is in a WH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Young trees requiring protection are not always staked. The may simply be marked with a tie or paint. If they are staked, the stake would almost certainly fastened to the tree, making the stake an IO.

Relief for a YTRP would normally be available under 24-2 but 24-2 does not apply when the ball is in a WH.

Young trees requiring protection are not immovable obstructions.  If the course wants to protect them, they must implement a local Rule (recommended local Rule is on page 126 of the Rule book).  If the recommended local Rule is in effect, it provides relief for interference by a young tree so marked even when the ball is in a water hazard.

As noted above, relief is taken according to the procedures in Rule 24-2, but this does not change the tree into an immovable obstruction.

No local Rule?  Relief from the stake/wires only as immovable obstructions (as others have said).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by rogolf

If the recommended local Rule is in effect, it provides relief for interference by a young tree so marked even when the ball is in a water hazard.

Oops.

Of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting (and enlightening!) Here is the relevant local rule from the course concerned:

PROTECTION OF THE COURSE

Only flower beds on the course marked with green stakes are ground under repair from which play is prohibited. If a player’s ball lies in these areas, or if they interfere with the player’s stance or swing, the player MUST take relief under Rule 25-1.

Trees that are required to be protected from damage are identified by white stakes. If a tree so marked interferes with a player’s stance or the area of intended swing, the ball MUST be lifted & dropped without penalty as provided in Rule 24-2.

All CANDELABRA plants, irrespective of where they are – the player MUST take relief in accordance with Rule 25-1.

I can't remember if the tree was specifically identified by a white stake, or simply supported by ordinary ones, so am still not sure if we proceeded correctly. But thank you very much for the clarification.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

first off all you don't get relieve from an out off bounce fence. Second after 3 drops he should have placed the ball on the place his last drop hit the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by tomvk77

Second after 3 drops he should have placed the ball on the place his last drop hit the ground.

Providing the ball hasn't rolled more than 2 club lengths from the spot it hit the ground you don't get a redrop, whether it finished on a path or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Originally Posted by Rulesman

Providing the ball hasn't rolled more than 2 club lengths from the spot it hit the ground you don't get a redrop, whether it finished on a path or not.

yes i know. I was assuming this had happened

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • 2017 TST Partners

    Talamore Golf Resort
    PING Golf
    FlightScope Mevo
    Mission Belt
    Snell Golf
    Frogger Golf
    PitchFix USA
  • Posts

    • @Mr. Desmond, methinks I spoke too soon.  What do you want to bet, he IS back?  (under different screen name however). As in gambling, there are "tells". However, I will now take my leave and NOT engage.
    • I am not sure. Maybe 10-12 years old. I remember when I purchased them, I told myself they were the last  set of irons I would buy.  My fairway woods are probably 7, or 8 years old.  My putter is the great grand pa in my bag. I also have a couple of loose iron clubs that are pretty old.  Both my irons, and woods still serve me quite well. They are quality stuff. 
    • I'm interested in skytrak and other similar devices (more affordable at home indoor launch monitors).  I've been reading about them and watching reviews, and every single one seems to analyze the accuracy of the distance related numbers.  I don't care about distance when it comes to these devices, I only care about directional accuracy.  I want to know if I'm hitting the ball straight.     Are there reviews out there that I haven't found that focus on this aspect of these devices?
    • Avoid the greenside bunkers at all costs. If you end up in one, strongly consider playing at the center of the green instead of at the flag. And by strongly consider, I mean do that unless you're 100% sure you can pull off the shot without ending in another greenside bunker. 
    • This is pretty much what all teaching is based on.  The idea that changes in your alignments will make you a better player.   If a player comes in with either too strong or two weak a grip or a flying right elbow or a flat swing or an upright swing, the average teacher wants too change it.   I too believe there is certain things you can do to change your swing.  But I more importantly believe that a proper transition fixes a lot of little details.  I think most people would agree that tiger, jack, Sam Snead, Ben hogan, lee Trevino, and nick faldo are some of the best ball strikers and best winners of all time.   But Trevino had a really strong grip and hogan had a really weak one.  So any where in between will work.  Hogan had a really tucked elbow and jack had a flying elbow.  So anywhere in between will work.   Sam Snead had a pretty upright swing as did jack and tiger but hogan and Trevino both much flatter.  So anywhere inbetween will work. All these players do have one thing in common and that is a similar lower bodie transition  
  • Blog Entries

  • Today's Birthdays

  • Get Great Gear with Amazon