Ban Metal Spikes on Tour

[TourSpoon]

My metal spikes lasted quite a while. Of course they were from the Gene Simmons collection.

Seriously, I remember changing metal spikes out quite often. At least more than the newest generation "spikeless" versions.

[StrayCat]

Originally Posted by iacas

Agree all you want, you're both wrong. :) You're going to get good and bad walkers with either kind of spike.

With metal, even the good walkers did damage that lasted.

Yup.

Lasted how long?  Until the next mornings cutting, right?

If it was longer, how long?  In PGA events, did the damage from Thursday affect Sundays play?  Were Jack and Arnie and Ben putting over grooves in the greens?  I don't ever remember hearing such things. It certainly wasn't true on the public courses I played. And, if true, would the pros put up with that today?  Are you hearing any of them shouting for a ban?  I haven't, but I don't follow this kind of thing that close.

I remember speaking to two course supers back at the ban time and they both told me the push for the ban was clubhouse and cart related damage that the courses had to deal with and it really had nothing to do with the greens at all.

When was the last time you rode in a cart that had a shredded floor covering or a was trashed in the dashboard area (for lack of a better term) from golfers putting their feet up while riding?  How many remember shredded carpets in the clubhouses or wood deck areas shredded by metal spikes.  That kind of stuff was the driving force for the soft spike movement.

And for those that voted for a ban on the tour, how many of you play on the tour and how does this affect you in the least?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by StrayCat

Lasted how long?  Until the next mornings cutting, right?

All day. And all summer in seasonal courses.

The carts, carpets, etc. stuff may have been a factor too, but the greens were better both immediately AND throughout the summer.

[canadianpro]

Justin Rose - US Open Champion..the first to win a major with NO SPIKES!

[wils5150]

Hate to dig up a old thread but. I hate all spikes. I wish everyone would wear  something like ecco's.  The new generation of soft spikes are just as bad or worse than the metal ones in some cases. Although I agree 100 % with Iacas about the carpets and the alike.

[BruceMGF]

Somehow I keep thinking of the old stories about how Sam Snead would have preferred to play barefoot.

[iacas]

Somehow I keep thinking of the old stories about how Sam Snead would have preferred to play barefoot.

If that were the case he probably would have/could have played in bare feet.*

Sam said he liked practicing in bare feet when his rhythm was off, IIRC. I don't recall him saying he'd prefer to play barefoot if he was allowed (*nor have I seen anything saying he wasn't allowed - that doesn't mean such a rule didn't exist back then, because I'm certain one exists now as part of the dress code, with exceptions for hitting shots from ponds and such).

[phan52]

All day. And all summer in seasonal courses.

The carts, carpets, etc. stuff may have been a factor too, but the greens were better both immediately AND throughout the summer.

Banning spikes of any kind is extreme, IMO, but I'll bet greenskeepers would love it.

Our greens were immediately better with the introduction of soft spikes. And the newer Ecco-type shoes leave a bit of impression on soft greens, but they bounce back almost immediately, and there is zero impression on fast, hard greens. I'm guessing some guys on Tour (and some amateurs as well) who swing out of their shoes prefer some kind of spike (even if is just mental), but it is hard to imagine that the Ecco-type shoes can do any damage to a green. And they are really comfortable, more like a sneaker.

[iacas]

Banning spikes of any kind is extreme, IMO, but I'll bet greenskeepers would love it.

To be clear, I didn't say that we should ban spikes of any kind.

[colin007]

just ban fat-asses that cant lift their feet when they walk on the green...

[wils5150]

Banning spikes of any kind is extreme, IMO, but I'll bet greenskeepers would love it.

Our greens were immediately better with the introduction of soft spikes. And the newer Ecco-type shoes leave a bit of impression on soft greens, but they bounce back almost immediately, and there is zero impression on fast, hard greens. I'm guessing some guys on Tour (and some amateurs as well) who swing out of their shoes prefer some kind of spike (even if is just mental), but it is hard to imagine that the Ecco-type shoes can do any damage to a green. And they are really comfortable, more like a sneaker.

The new style of soft spikes are just as bad as the old metal one and have created new problems for Superintendents. I like ecco and sneakers( I play in trues or sneakers) types myself. As far as clubhouse infrastructure metal spikes are the worse.

[BruceMGF]

If that were the case he probably would have/could have played in bare feet.*

Sam said he liked practicing in bare feet when his rhythm was off, IIRC. I don't recall him saying he'd prefer to play barefoot if he was allowed (*nor have I seen anything saying he wasn't allowed - that doesn't mean such a rule didn't exist back then, because I'm certain one exists now as part of the dress code, with exceptions for hitting shots from ponds and such).

I don't have it at hand, but in his autobiographical "Education of a Golfer" I remember him taking his shoes off for several holes during a tournament and getting chewed out by a tournament official for it.  It was considered undignified or something like that.  Not sure if he was quoted a specific rule.

[phan52]

Quote:

Quote:

Originally Posted by iacas

All day. And all summer in seasonal courses.

The carts, carpets, etc. stuff may have been a factor too, but the greens were better both immediately AND throughout the summer.

Originally Posted by phan52

Banning spikes of any kind is extreme, IMO, but I'll bet greenskeepers would love it.

Originally Posted by iacas

To be clear, I didn't say that we should ban spikes of any kind.

I never said you did. My response to your post was more directed at the aspect of what the spikes do to greens. The banning spikes (or not) was more a comment on the title of the thread.

[BruceMGF]

just ban fat-asses that cant lift their feet when they walk on the green...

And all public courses will go broke.

[Fourputt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phan52

Banning spikes of any kind is extreme, IMO, but I'll bet greenskeepers would love it.

Our greens were immediately better with the introduction of soft spikes. And the newer Ecco-type shoes leave a bit of impression on soft greens, but they bounce back almost immediately, and there is zero impression on fast, hard greens. I'm guessing some guys on Tour (and some amateurs as well) who swing out of their shoes prefer some kind of spike (even if is just mental), but it is hard to imagine that the Ecco-type shoes can do any damage to a green. And they are really comfortable, more like a sneaker.

The new style of soft spikes are just as bad as the old metal one and have created new problems for Superintendents. I like ecco and sneakers( I play in trues or sneakers) types myself. As far as clubhouse infrastructure metal spikes are the worse.

How do you figure that?  I see zero problems with soft spikes.  At worst they leave small indentations which pop right back up, and on firm greens they leave virtually no mark at all.  I'm a big guy, yet you can't even tell where I've walked most of the time.  How can that be a problem?  The greens on my home course improved almost overnight when they banned steel spikes, and I've never hear any comments mentioning any downside.  I know that the super where I worked loved soft spikes.

[iacas]

The new style of soft spikes are just as bad as the old metal one and have created new problems for Superintendents. I like ecco and sneakers( I play in trues or sneakers) types myself. As far as clubhouse infrastructure metal spikes are the worse.

Given your position as a superintendent, please clarify this.

[wils5150]

Given your position as a superintendent, please clarify this.

some of the newer models are made from a very hard plastic so they last longer. In the spring and fall when things are a bit softer they will leave more marks per foot print than a metal one. believe me when you add everything up they are better than metal. The True's or Ecco type shoe is the best overall. I cant remember what brand of spike it is but, many courses have banned a certain brand.