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Posted

Hating it is good in that it is motivating. It won't disappear overnight. Stay patient and keep working on it.

I have no intentions on giving up, it's probably the biggest thing that has held me back from being a better golf for all these years.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted
I think its hard because it is due (in large part) to things that come before. In order to fix it, you can't focus on the "flip", rather what came before that caused it. It took me quite awhile to wrap my head around this. I was wondering why @mvmac was having me do the things he said. To me, they seemed unrelated. As I improved them though, the flip (or in my case I let the lag go early but then appeared to hold on) got better. I think you need to just focus on what you are getting from your instructor. Remember, there are no shortcuts.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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Posted

I think its hard because it is due (in large part) to things that come before. In order to fix it, you can't focus on the "flip", rather what came before that caused it.

It took me quite awhile to wrap my head around this. I was wondering why @mvmac was having me do the things he said. To me, they seemed unrelated. As I improved them though, the flip (or in my case I let the lag go early but then appeared to hold on) got better. I think you need to just focus on what you are getting from your instructor. Remember, there are no shortcuts.

The instructor is having me work on the flip ;-)

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
[QUOTE name="14ledo81" url="/t/67948/my-swing-jeremie-boop/324#post_1033135"] I think its hard because it is due (in large part) to things that come before. In order to fix it, you can't focus on the "flip", rather what came before that caused it. It took me quite awhile to wrap my head around this. I was wondering why [@=/u/22889/mvmac]@mvmac[/@] was having me do the things he said. To me, they seemed unrelated. As I improved them though, the flip (or in my case I let the lag go early but then appeared to hold on) got better. I think you need to just focus on what you are getting from your instructor. Remember, there are no shortcuts.[/QUOTE] The instructor is having me work on the flip ;-)

Well that's good... :) Like I said, it took me quite awhile to get that. I kept thinking I needed to try something else. I had enough faith and confidence in Mike though, so I stuck with the things he had me work on. "Magically" the swing looks better.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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Posted

Well that's good... :)

Like I said, it took me quite awhile to get that. I kept thinking I needed to try something else. I had enough faith and confidence in Mike though, so I stuck with the things he had me work on. "Magically" the swing looks better.

I've got to let go of the idea that suddenly it's going to "click" and the flip will just disappear. This is where I'm tested, I've had 2 changes that were very quick and easy for me to implement and now it's one that'll take time. When I do the drill then check my full swing I'll get 1 good-ish swing like I posted out of 10. I mean, that's progress for sure, but it's really hard to accept such SLOW progress rofl. But I will not give up!

Never give up, never surrender!

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I hate this flip, I don't know why it's so hard for me to fix it. Nothing else has been nearly as hard to do.

I don't know if this is good advice, but I really think the "flip" might be a mental block more than anything. Have you tried just to swing as hard and aggressively as possible? Just feel like you are pounding the club face into the ground, trying to bury it six inches like Conan on steroids? It seems to fly in the face of practicing slowly and simply, etc., but you have such a nice swing that breaks down from an athletic perspective when the flip takes over.

The ball being so far back in your stance seems to be an indication to me that you have it on your mind too much when you swing. My swing is pretty ugly, but when I hit one well, I do hit it long and the feeling I get with an iron is that I'm driving the club into the ground. I almost used to worry that I would bury the thing 3 inches deep into the ground and break my wrists at impact, but after 10,000+ swings it's still never happened.

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Posted

I don't know if this is good advice, but I really think the "flip" might be a mental block more than anything. Have you tried just to swing as hard and aggressively as possible? Just feel like you are pounding the club face into the ground, trying to bury it six inches like Conan on steroids? It seems to fly in the face of practicing slowly and simply, etc., but you have such a nice swing that breaks down from an athletic perspective when the flip takes over.

The ball being so far back in your stance seems to be an indication to me that you have it on your mind too much when you swing. My swing is pretty ugly, but when I hit one well, I do hit it long and the feeling I get with an iron is that I'm driving the club into the ground. I almost used to worry that I would bury the thing 3 inches deep into the ground and break my wrists at impact, but after 10,000+ swings it's still never happened.

Interesting idea, I have heard of the practice of swinging super hard several times as practice then taking a normal swing though. Sounds somewhat similar to what you are saying. I'm going to focus on my current drill for a couple weeks and if it doesn't really have any appreciable impact on the problem I'm sure they'll have another drill to try. I need to focus on moving the ball forward though for sure.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I don't know if this is good advice, but I really think the "flip" might be a mental block more than anything. Have you tried just to swing as hard and aggressively as possible? Just feel like you are pounding the club face into the ground, trying to bury it six inches like Conan on steroids? It seems to fly in the face of practicing slowly and simply, etc., but you have such a nice swing that breaks down from an athletic perspective when the flip takes over.

The ball being so far back in your stance seems to be an indication to me that you have it on your mind too much when you swing. My swing is pretty ugly, but when I hit one well, I do hit it long and the feeling I get with an iron is that I'm driving the club into the ground. I almost used to worry that I would bury the thing 3 inches deep into the ground and break my wrists at impact, but after 10,000+ swings it's still never happened.

I think this would be counter productive actually. You need to train the right hand not to "fire through" impact. The drill you are doing @Jeremie Boop is the best. Just keep at it.

- Shane

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Posted
@Jeremie Boop I say this with love. Stop fishing for other ideas on here. It'll only distract you from what Evolvr is giving you and will make it take a lot longer to make the change. Be a stupid monkey. A stupid flippy monkey. :-P

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

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Posted

@Jeremie Boop

I say this with love. Stop fishing for other ideas on here. It'll only distract you from what Evolvr is giving you and will make it take a lot longer to make the change.

Be a stupid monkey.

A stupid flippy monkey.

I understand what you are saying, not really looking for ideas so much as confirmation of whether what I was doing was working. I want to find a feel in the full swing that I can key on to go along with the drill I'm doing. It's possible that there is no feel and that it'll just happen.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
[QUOTE name="Ernest Jones" url="/t/67948/my-swing-jeremie-boop/324#post_1033622"] [@=/u/47363/Jeremie-Boop]@Jeremie Boop[/@] I say this with love. Stop fishing for other ideas on here. It'll only distract you from what Evolvr is giving you and will make it take a lot longer to make the change. Be a stupid monkey. A stupid flippy monkey. :-P [/QUOTE] I understand what you are saying, not really looking for ideas so much as confirmation of whether what I was doing was working. I want to find a feel in the full swing that I can key on to go along with the drill I'm doing. It's possible that there is no feel and that it'll just happen.

I hear ya, and "peer review" can be very effective and helpful. Just cautioning you to make sure you don't get detoured by tips and suggestions the rest of us make. I've been guilty of making suggestions too, it's hard not to because we all want to help each other, but the reality is the Evolvr guys are thinking many steps ahead of the rest of us.

Yours in earnest, Jason.
Call me Ernest, or EJ or Ernie.

PSA - "If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING!"

My Whackin' Sticks: :cleveland: 330cc 2003 Launcher 10.5*  :tmade: RBZ HL 3w  :nickent: 3DX DC 3H, 3DX RC 4H  :callaway: X-22 5-AW  :nike:SV tour 56* SW :mizuno: MP-T11 60* LW :bridgestone: customized TD-03 putter :tmade:Penta TP3   :aimpoint:

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

I hear ya, and "peer review" can be very effective and helpful. Just cautioning you to make sure you don't get detoured by tips and suggestions the rest of us make. I've been guilty of making suggestions too, it's hard not to because we all want to help each other, but the reality is the Evolvr guys are thinking many steps ahead of the rest of us.

I completely agree don't listen to anything EJ says. He's a good example of when keeping it real goes wrong. :dance:

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  • Moderator
Posted
Interesting idea, I have heard of the practice of swinging super hard several times as practice then taking a normal swing though. Sounds somewhat similar to what you are saying. I'm going to focus on my current drill for a couple weeks and if it doesn't really have any appreciable impact on the problem I'm sure they'll have another drill to try. I need to focus on moving the ball forward though for sure.

I would think swinging fast is the exact opposite of what you should be doing. Swinging fast is only going to bring all of your old "ingrained" movements into play. For you, it would mean a really fast flip (not to mention what other keys might go haywire when you swing out of your shoes). What you should really be doing is swinging slowly. Swing really slow if you have to, to exaggerate the change. You use a camera, you can monitor your swing. Swing as fast as you are able to see you are not flipping. If that means you hit a 50yd 7 iron about 10' in the air, so be it. As soon as you see yourself flip, back the throttle down. The important thing is to know and confirm you are doing the motion correctly. Swing slow to change fast.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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Posted

Quick update, still working on this but looking better maybe?

Ball position check and check on progress of "kick the flip" First swing was a combination of the drill plus full swing, trying to stop the club chest high on the follow through with the club head below the hands. Second was obviously just a regular full swing.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Quick screencap of the video uploaded to evolvr 5 days ago and tonight. I know I've still got a lot of drills and practice to go, but I think this is a good start. Progress is exciting for me, I don't think I've ever progressed this fast before. I give all the credit to Iacas and brian for helping me. Pushing me to record myself to find the right feels and focus on one thing at a time has helped more than I ever thought possible.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Quick screencap of the video uploaded to evolvr 5 days ago and tonight. I know I've still got a lot of drills and practice to go, but I think this is a good start. [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/103434/] [/URL]

That is looking pretty good. I think you're turning the corner.

- Shane

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

That is looking pretty good. I think you're turning the corner.

Thanks man. Really slowing things down and using the video to constantly check what I'm doing and confirming what feel=real has made for a much quicker progression than when I just assumed what I felt was real. It's really made incorporating these so much changes easier.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
Good progress!!! That has to be encouraging.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1371 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Day 610 - 2026-06-03 Got some work in between lessons today. Rare late day, teaching until 7:30pm.
    • Let's continue on… Cool. The thing is, nobody's claiming par is "reliable" and par's inclusion piggy-backs in the course rating, which is awfully close to par and, thus, brings par in to make it make sense. Once again, for those in the back… (CR - Par) just makes it really easy to know what kind of score you need to shoot to best, match, or play worse than your handicap index. Yes, when par is different, the players from the higher par tees get an extra stroke (72 vs. 71, the 72s get an extra stroke. That makes sense and is a small complication (more info at https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Committee%20Content/USGA/LG_R6d.htm). However, most of the time, this adjustment will not be needed, as many courses play to the same par for the same genders from all sets of tees. And, the rare times it is needed, par (measured in whole numbers, integers) and strokes (also whole numbers/integers) map easily and the idea is easily grasped. Dean seems to be unaware of the fact that most every golfer carries something orders of magnitude more powerful than the highest end desktop computers available the last time he consulted with the USGA in their pockets. While it is quaint that his club puts printouts by the first tee… get with the times, Dean. Look up your handicap index and course handicap in the GHIN app and get on with it. It's a better system than the one that didn't account — at all — for a difference in the playing conditions (via an algorithm, not a judgment). Dean's assertions about the "less precise system because of par" continues to make absolutely zero sense. Right, it still changed tee to tee. Now it just changes differently… and in a way that more accurately reflects the score you need to shoot to play to your handicap. Previously, a 1.1 index would get 1 stroke on a 66.7/122 par-72 course. Now they give four strokes back to the course and must shoot 68 to play to their handicap. This makes way more sense. The 18-shot difference is a pretty extreme example. Maybe a long course that also offers a par-three set of tees could play that long, but… man, that's not going to be super common. Sensationalistic much, Dean? Also, once those unhappy (complete assumption) golfers realize a) what the change shows them (playing to net par = playing to your index) and b) realizes that their differential is going to be the same… I think they'll get over their initial questions. No. And yet… if he shoots the same scores, he'll get the same handicap index he has now. But he'll know on each course what score he needs to shoot to "play to his handicap." Sheesh, Dean. This stuff isn't that hard to figure out. Enough with the sensationalistic stuff. I don't find it "unacceptable" at all. Then again, I'm not nearly 80 and seemingly incapable of doing basic math these days. No. This literally makes no sense, as that part of the differential calculation and the course handicap calculation remains identical. Good! No. Categorically wrong. They should have been adjusting their handicaps all along. Previously it was by subtracting the course ratings. Which… is still basically what's done, with the addition of the course rating being "baked in" to the course handicap calculation. Dean is wrong here, or doing some math heretofore unknown by the world. When par is the same, what determines the difference in handicaps? The course rating, which Dean loves! Sheesh! You had to things when players were in situations like this before, too. This is getting exhausting. He keeps using words like "less precise" and "unfair" but does not seem to understand what they mean. This is like the Princess Bride meme: "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." The caps reduce upward movement. Committees have reign to reduce a player's handicap, and there's still an automatic Exceptional Score Reduction. I'm going through these more quickly now because… well, it's silly how badly Dean misses the mark with this blog post. Dean is literally confusing the upward movement (with the soft and hard caps) here with the exceptional score reduction which is used when lowering handicaps due to an exceptionally good score. The creators of the WHS are handicap experts. They know more about the current state of handicaps/handicapping than the Pope Emeritus. It's been shown to have almost no effect across all handicaps. Yes, some 36s under the old system are now 35s under the new system. Yawn. He should have stopped there. It's easier to apply and makes more sense. This makes no sense. It's "not complex" but players will have to guess? And, for men or women, the stroke index of each hole doesn't change because they play a different set of tees. They get a different number of strokes, but it's always been true that when you get 14 strokes you apply a stroke to stroke index holes 1-14, and when you get 11, to just holes with a SI of 1-11. Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence. Dean's just out here continuing to make shit up about "the inaccuracy of par" and ignoring that with Par (an integer) came the Course Rating, which he agrees is precise and accurate. No. No, this is inaccurate. Also, as noted, you can randomly assign stroke indexes, and so long as all the low numbers or all the high numbers are not clumped together at the beginning or ends of the 18 holes, matches generally work out the same. This is inaccurate. It is an algorithm that looks at scores. That's it. Also, this is better than a system like the prior one where no such thing existed at all. Wildly inaccurate and off-base. Did they do actual testing? No need. They have millions and millions of rounds and ran many, many, many simulations. That's testing. Dean seems to continue to be unaware of the fact that computers are more powerful now than they were in 2002. But, he's nearly 80, so we can understand if not going so far as to give him a pass on how much he gets wrong. Cool. Noted. For the most part that was because many countries haven't been able to rate enough of their courses. :sigh:
    • Day 3 (3 Jun 26) - More work on keeping arms connected today - hard foam balls with 7i and 5w…..
    • Day 274 6-3 flow drill getting chest through, arms in front. Arms get a little pinned to the side, not as much in front as I want them when I add speed. 
    • Shot 48 yesterday.  For me bogey golf is good.  I was 10 over through 7 and figured with a Par 3 and 4 coming on all I needed was birdie / par to get my 45. I had a great tee shot on #8 and sunk  a 5 footer for birdie, game was coming together, now just needed par on #9. Had a great tee drive and the green was within range for a hoped GIR or nGIR.  But I pulled the shot left into tall weeds and needed to take a drop.  So much for par, but a bogey for 46 is still good for me. I hit my lob wedge to get over a small tree and saw the ball riding nicely  on line to the pin when my club hit the ball a 2nd time on my follow through causing the ball to change directions and ended up @ pin high but along the same tall weeds I just took an unplayable out of.  had no room for a backswing, Just hacked at it and it shot across the green to the rough on the far side.  Needed a chip & 1 putt got a triple bogey. you can see the hole fall apart in the screenshot below.  
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