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Posted

That makes no sense Shane, if I gain yards with my driver the gap gets bigger.... The driver goes too far as it is, unless you are saying just hit the 2h further rofl.

If you fix the flip...every club goes further. ;)

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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Posted

If you fix the flip...every club goes further. ;)

That still leaves the 50+ yard gap to deal with. If I start hitting my 2h 280-290 that would be crazy.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

That still leaves the 50+ yard gap to deal with. If I start hitting my 2h 280-290 that would be crazy.


Swing harder! ;-)

- Shane

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Posted

This has been no help at all!!!!

Just kidding, I'm just going to deal with the gap for now and revisit when I have the funds for a properly fitted option. League is nearly over anyway.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

This has been no help at all!!!!

Just kidding, I'm just going to deal with the gap for now and revisit when I have the funds for a properly fitted option. League is nearly over anyway.

My work here is done. :smartass:

- Shane

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Posted

This has been no help at all!!!!

Just kidding, I'm just going to deal with the gap for now and revisit when I have the funds for a properly fitted option. League is nearly over anyway.

I don't think it is a bad problem to have.  I have a large gap past 240 yards.  Primarily because I don't have a club that will hit the ball any farther...

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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Posted

My work here is done.

If only I had gotten some sweet clubs for free I'd have some extra cash.... B-)

I don't think it is a bad problem to have.  I have a large gap past 240 yards.  Primarily because I don't have a club that will hit the ball any farther...

Yeah, the only reason I see it as a problem is because I run into it every week. There's always one or 2 holes where if I hit the driver it's going to be too long and the 2h is going to be a bit short. I guess another option would be to learn a partial or easy swing with my driver to hit that distance but I don't really like that idea.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarlSpackler

My work here is done.

If only I had gotten some sweet clubs for free I'd have some extra cash....

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ledo81

I don't think it is a bad problem to have.  I have a large gap past 240 yards.  Primarily because I don't have a club that will hit the ball any farther...

Yeah, the only reason I see it as a problem is because I run into it every week. There's always one or 2 holes where if I hit the driver it's going to be too long and the 2h is going to be a bit short. I guess another option would be to learn a partial or easy swing with my driver to hit that distance but I don't really like that idea.

Yup...again, no sympathy from me.  I wish I had problems like to deal with.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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  • Administrator
Posted

You've gotten some advice. Did you still need any from me? Didn't seem like it.

Did you read what LSW says? :)

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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Posted

You've gotten some advice. Did you still need any from me? Didn't seem like it.

Did you read what LSW says? :)

I haven't read all of LSW yet, and I suppose unless you have conflicting advice then there's no need to say anything. I was going with the closer is always better principle but I guess I was a bit off. But the book does say that a 3w is important.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

Up and down night. I had a couple really good drives on back to back holes, slight wind at the back around 8-10 mph had a 300 and 320ish yard drives. My problem tonight was a weird one to have, I was striking the ball ridiculously well so I was hitting my approach shots way too far, like 10 yards too far. I suppose that's a good problem to have. Lost a couple balls tonight, one was after the 320 yard drive I forgot to club down for the wind and carried the ball over the green which has a slope and ob 20 yards passed the green. So I landed on the downslope which kicked the ball straight OB... The second one was the over the water drive hole, this hole played into the wind and I pull drawed the ball to a spot that required probably 260 carry and just landed short. 3rd lost ball wasn't even lost, I just about a perfect tee shot on the last hole then duffed my 60* wedge and the ball landed just over the creek and bounced backwards. I just assumed the ball ended up in the water. After finishing out the hole I went back to fish the ball out of the water only to find it a grassy spot just inside the hazard where I could have played out. I ended up with a 48 with the 3 lost ball penalties and had 2 3 putts. So overall I wasn't playing too poorly, just had a few errors that cost me. I really feel like my game is coming around. I made the turn and walked the back 9 which went a lot better until the last 2 holes, just was too hot and tired. Hands were sweaty and the club was twisting in my hands. Not a big deal, still ended up at +10 but I was only +5 after 7 holes. I really feel like things are turning a corner with my swing. I have a good feel for stopping the flip. I don't execute it right 100% of the time but it's getting more consistent which is evidenced by my longer/straighter drives and longer/straighter iron shots. As long as I can keep focusing on getting that feel cemented into my swing through the winter I have a good feeling about next here being a banner year for me improvement wise.

Forgot to mention I had 2 good hybrid "drives" also one lowish that ran out to 254 and one perfect high draw downhill that went 272. I just couldn't capitalize with my approach shots because I haven't found a comfortable swing for 60 ish yards.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

Your power is impressive with that flip. If I hadn't played with you before, I'm not sure I'd believe you. :-D

My distance is going in the opposite direction. I think my driver distance has dropped 30 yards on average this season.

Back on topic...maybe your changes are taking affect and you're flipping less...would explain the additional yardage....

Ryan M
 
The Internet Adjustment Formula:
IAD = ( [ADD] * .96 + [EPS] * [1/.12] ) / (1.15)
 
IAD = Internet Adjusted Distance (in yards)
ADD = Actual Driver Distance (in yards)
EPS = E-Penis Size (in inches)
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Posted
Your power is impressive with that flip. If I hadn't played with you before, I'm not sure I'd believe you. :-D My distance is going in the opposite direction. I think my driver distance has dropped 30 yards on average this season. Back on topic...maybe your changes are taking affect and you're flipping less...would explain the additional yardage....

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what's happening, those longer shots are non flip swings. I can feel the difference in the swing when they happen. Not only that but the sound is different in both the swing and the impact. I'm getting better at it, it's probably more like 1/3 of my swings are non-flips now. Maybe a bit more. The other swings are varying degrees of flip from a little to holy crap that was bad rofl

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Up and down night. I had a couple really good drives on back to back holes, slight wind at the back around 8-10 mph had a 300 and 320ish yard drives. My problem tonight was a weird one to have, I was striking the ball ridiculously well so I was hitting my approach shots way too far, like 10 yards too far. I suppose that's a good problem to have. Lost a couple balls tonight, one was after the 320 yard drive I forgot to club down for the wind and carried the ball over the green which has a slope and ob 20 yards passed the green. So I landed on the downslope which kicked the ball straight OB... The second one was the over the water drive hole, this hole played into the wind and I pull drawed the ball to a spot that required probably 260 carry and just landed short. 3rd lost ball wasn't even lost, I just about a perfect tee shot on the last hole then duffed my 60* wedge and the ball landed just over the creek and bounced backwards. I just assumed the ball ended up in the water. After finishing out the hole I went back to fish the ball out of the water only to find it a grassy spot just inside the hazard where I could have played out. I ended up with a 48 with the 3 lost ball penalties and had 2 3 putts. So overall I wasn't playing too poorly, just had a few errors that cost me. I really feel like my game is coming around. I made the turn and walked the back 9 which went a lot better until the last 2 holes, just was too hot and tired. Hands were sweaty and the club was twisting in my hands. Not a big deal, still ended up at +10 but I was only +5 after 7 holes. I really feel like things are turning a corner with my swing. I have a good feel for stopping the flip. I don't execute it right 100% of the time but it's getting more consistent which is evidenced by my longer/straighter drives and longer/straighter iron shots. As long as I can keep focusing on getting that feel cemented into my swing through the winter I have a good feeling about next here being a banner year for me improvement wise.

Forgot to mention I had 2 good hybrid "drives" also one lowish that ran out to 254 and one perfect high draw downhill that went 272. I just couldn't capitalize with my approach shots because I haven't found a comfortable swing for 60 ish yards.

You realize how much us short-hitters hate you, right? :-P

Agree, with your distance and a little work you're gonna see some HUGE scoring improvements pretty soon.

In David's bag....

Driver: Titleist 910 D-3;  9.5* Diamana Kai'li
3-Wood: Titleist 910F;  15* Diamana Kai'li
Hybrids: Titleist 910H 19* and 21* Diamana Kai'li
Irons: Titleist 695cb 5-Pw

Wedges: Scratch 51-11 TNC grind, Vokey SM-5's;  56-14 F grind and 60-11 K grind
Putter: Scotty Cameron Kombi S
Ball: ProV1

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Posted

You realize how much us short-hitters hate you, right?

Agree, with your distance and a little work you're gonna see some HUGE scoring improvements pretty soon.

I think he might be too preoccupied with distance :whistle:;-)

Up and down night. I had a couple really good drives on back to back holes, slight wind at the back around 8-10 mph had a 300 and 320ish yard drives. My problem tonight was a weird one to have, I was striking the ball ridiculously well so I was hitting my approach shots way too far, like 10 yards too far.

Less flip = less loft at impact and getting contact near max velocity. Though I think a flip is a speed (power accumulator) move in the swing. Just when you do that too early you add loft and decrease speed, more of a timing move.

You might have issues for a bit while your swing fluctuates between flip and non flip. I would error on the side of less trouble. If OB Is back, then club down and make sure you don't juice one way over.

One was after the 320 yard drive I forgot to club down for the wind and carried the ball over the green which has a slope and ob 20 yards passed the green. So I landed on the downslope which kicked the ball straight OB...

Read the book Erik gave you. If you are hitting a lot of long drives, and you know the wind is behind you. Why hit driver if it brings in OB. OB is a dark zone, DEATH!!! Your ball should not come with in 20 yards of OB in most cases.  On a short hole like that, the 260 yard hybrid might be a good option? I know hitting the green from the tee is pretty cool, but sometimes on short holes like that, they are like long par 3's where all the bad stuff is near the green.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted

I think he might be too preoccupied with distance

Less flip = less loft at impact and getting contact near max velocity. Though I think a flip is a speed (power accumulator) move in the swing. Just when you do that too early you add loft and decrease speed, more of a timing move.

You might have issues for a bit while your swing fluctuates between flip and non flip. I would error on the side of less trouble. If OB Is back, then club down and make sure you don't juice one way over.

Read the book Erik gave you. If you are hitting a lot of long drives, and you know the wind is behind you. Why hit driver if it brings in OB. OB is a dark zone, DEATH!!! Your ball should not come with in 20 yards of OB in most cases.  On a short hole like that, the 260 yard hybrid might be a good option? I know hitting the green from the tee is pretty cool, but sometimes on short holes like that, they are like long par 3's where all the bad stuff is near the green.

I didn't hit my drive OB, I hit my approach OB after that drive because I didn't club down for the wind. That was a par 5, I don't think hitting a 260 hybrid leaving myself with closer to 200 instead of 140 is the smart play. I hit hybrid on the last hole because that is the smart play because a good drive puts you in the trees through the fairway and the 8th hole because it's only 290 with a tee box behind the green. I am getting better at knowing when to keep the driver in the bag. Also, I will grant that I'm a bit obsessed with distance, but that's because closer to the hole is better for scoring!! Also a shorter iron is easier to hit than a longer iron, so yeah. For now I'm going to err on the side of a bit less club if I think there is a chance of flying greens.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted
I have a question if you don't mind because I saw that posted it and Matt posted it as well. You mentioned that a couple hits were "non-flip" hits and then Matt mentioned "fluctuates between flip and non-flip", so I guess my real question is this even possible? If you recorded 20 swings in a row for example and I asked you after each one did you flip or not flip, how many would you accurately point out, and would they actually even look any different? It seems that you are coming to your conclusion by the result of the hit, but I dont think anyone can conclude what you did during your swing from that, and you can't say that you feel that you didn't flip because we all know feel is not real, so that's what I'm trying to figure out! Ps I hope I'm not out of line with my question, just trying to understand and learn my friend! Cheers

:adams: / :tmade: / :edel: / :aimpoint: / :ecco: / :bushnell: / :gamegolf: / 

Eyad

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Posted
I would say I would be pretty accurate. It is definitely possible to have some flip and non flip swings just like with any setting change you make. It's fine to ask though. The ball flight, distance, sound of style are all significantly different when I flip and don't flip.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1371 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Day 610 - 2026-06-03 Got some work in between lessons today. Rare late day, teaching until 7:30pm.
    • Let's continue on… Cool. The thing is, nobody's claiming par is "reliable" and par's inclusion piggy-backs in the course rating, which is awfully close to par and, thus, brings par in to make it make sense. Once again, for those in the back… (CR - Par) just makes it really easy to know what kind of score you need to shoot to best, match, or play worse than your handicap index. Yes, when par is different, the players from the higher par tees get an extra stroke (72 vs. 71, the 72s get an extra stroke. That makes sense and is a small complication (more info at https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Committee%20Content/USGA/LG_R6d.htm). However, most of the time, this adjustment will not be needed, as many courses play to the same par for the same genders from all sets of tees. And, the rare times it is needed, par (measured in whole numbers, integers) and strokes (also whole numbers/integers) map easily and the idea is easily grasped. Dean seems to be unaware of the fact that most every golfer carries something orders of magnitude more powerful than the highest end desktop computers available the last time he consulted with the USGA in their pockets. While it is quaint that his club puts printouts by the first tee… get with the times, Dean. Look up your handicap index and course handicap in the GHIN app and get on with it. It's a better system than the one that didn't account — at all — for a difference in the playing conditions (via an algorithm, not a judgment). Dean's assertions about the "less precise system because of par" continues to make absolutely zero sense. Right, it still changed tee to tee. Now it just changes differently… and in a way that more accurately reflects the score you need to shoot to play to your handicap. Previously, a 1.1 index would get 1 stroke on a 66.7/122 par-72 course. Now they give four strokes back to the course and must shoot 68 to play to their handicap. This makes way more sense. The 18-shot difference is a pretty extreme example. Maybe a long course that also offers a par-three set of tees could play that long, but… man, that's not going to be super common. Sensationalistic much, Dean? Also, once those unhappy (complete assumption) golfers realize a) what the change shows them (playing to net par = playing to your index) and b) realizes that their differential is going to be the same… I think they'll get over their initial questions. No. And yet… if he shoots the same scores, he'll get the same handicap index he has now. But he'll know on each course what score he needs to shoot to "play to his handicap." Sheesh, Dean. This stuff isn't that hard to figure out. Enough with the sensationalistic stuff. I don't find it "unacceptable" at all. Then again, I'm not nearly 80 and seemingly incapable of doing basic math these days. No. This literally makes no sense, as that part of the differential calculation and the course handicap calculation remains identical. Good! No. Categorically wrong. They should have been adjusting their handicaps all along. Previously it was by subtracting the course ratings. Which… is still basically what's done, with the addition of the course rating being "baked in" to the course handicap calculation. Dean is wrong here, or doing some math heretofore unknown by the world. When par is the same, what determines the difference in handicaps? The course rating, which Dean loves! Sheesh! You had to things when players were in situations like this before, too. This is getting exhausting. He keeps using words like "less precise" and "unfair" but does not seem to understand what they mean. This is like the Princess Bride meme: "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." The caps reduce upward movement. Committees have reign to reduce a player's handicap, and there's still an automatic Exceptional Score Reduction. I'm going through these more quickly now because… well, it's silly how badly Dean misses the mark with this blog post. Dean is literally confusing the upward movement (with the soft and hard caps) here with the exceptional score reduction which is used when lowering handicaps due to an exceptionally good score. The creators of the WHS are handicap experts. They know more about the current state of handicaps/handicapping than the Pope Emeritus. It's been shown to have almost no effect across all handicaps. Yes, some 36s under the old system are now 35s under the new system. Yawn. He should have stopped there. It's easier to apply and makes more sense. This makes no sense. It's "not complex" but players will have to guess? And, for men or women, the stroke index of each hole doesn't change because they play a different set of tees. They get a different number of strokes, but it's always been true that when you get 14 strokes you apply a stroke to stroke index holes 1-14, and when you get 11, to just holes with a SI of 1-11. Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence. Dean's just out here continuing to make shit up about "the inaccuracy of par" and ignoring that with Par (an integer) came the Course Rating, which he agrees is precise and accurate. No. No, this is inaccurate. Also, as noted, you can randomly assign stroke indexes, and so long as all the low numbers or all the high numbers are not clumped together at the beginning or ends of the 18 holes, matches generally work out the same. This is inaccurate. It is an algorithm that looks at scores. That's it. Also, this is better than a system like the prior one where no such thing existed at all. Wildly inaccurate and off-base. Did they do actual testing? No need. They have millions and millions of rounds and ran many, many, many simulations. That's testing. Dean seems to continue to be unaware of the fact that computers are more powerful now than they were in 2002. But, he's nearly 80, so we can understand if not going so far as to give him a pass on how much he gets wrong. Cool. Noted. For the most part that was because many countries haven't been able to rate enough of their courses. :sigh:
    • Day 3 (3 Jun 26) - More work on keeping arms connected today - hard foam balls with 7i and 5w…..
    • Day 274 6-3 flow drill getting chest through, arms in front. Arms get a little pinned to the side, not as much in front as I want them when I add speed. 
    • Shot 48 yesterday.  For me bogey golf is good.  I was 10 over through 7 and figured with a Par 3 and 4 coming on all I needed was birdie / par to get my 45. I had a great tee shot on #8 and sunk  a 5 footer for birdie, game was coming together, now just needed par on #9. Had a great tee drive and the green was within range for a hoped GIR or nGIR.  But I pulled the shot left into tall weeds and needed to take a drop.  So much for par, but a bogey for 46 is still good for me. I hit my lob wedge to get over a small tree and saw the ball riding nicely  on line to the pin when my club hit the ball a 2nd time on my follow through causing the ball to change directions and ended up @ pin high but along the same tall weeds I just took an unplayable out of.  had no room for a backswing, Just hacked at it and it shot across the green to the rough on the far side.  Needed a chip & 1 putt got a triple bogey. you can see the hole fall apart in the screenshot below.  
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