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Posted
I think your brain might be going into hyperdrive. I would get a bucket and hit some with a half swing feel and slowly (Slowly!) go a little longer on consecutive swings until you start to lose control. Back off a little until you have control.

- Shane

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Posted

disclaimer no ball used in these swings, only using video to check for top swing positions

Still looks a bit longer than what you indicated I should go for, but I thought I'd throw this in there too as about where I'd be at impact

no flip? I know there's a lot of differences between a swing with and with a ball to hit but this is probably the best looking impact position with or without a ball I've ever had

I worked on this stop position several times, the top wasn't always at the same spot but it was never much passed this, and every "impact" was the same as this good inline wrist. It's too late in the day to hit the range, but at least I have a much better idea of where I need to stop the swing.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

disclaimer no ball used in these swings, only using video to check for top swing positions

Still looks a bit longer than what you indicated I should go for, but I thought I'd throw this in there too as about where I'd be at impact

no flip? I know there's a lot of differences between a swing with and with a ball to hit but this is probably the best looking impact position with or without a ball I've ever had

I worked on this stop position several times, the top wasn't always at the same spot but it was never much passed this, and every "impact" was the same as this good inline wrist. It's too late in the day to hit the range, but at least I have a much better idea of where I need to stop the swing.

It's going to be a bit of trial and error to get the feeling right. All your swing knows right now is way past parallel. So, just keep working at it. If you see, or feel yourself going to far, stop the backswing and then position the hands where you want them, and hold them there to get a feel for where they are at.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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Posted

It's going to be a bit of trial and error to get the feeling right. All your swing knows right now is way past parallel. So, just keep working at it. If you see, or feel yourself going to far, stop the backswing and then position the hands where you want them, and hold them there to get a feel for where they are at.

It's definitely going to be weird, right now my "trigger" for stopping my backswing is when I feel like my arms are pointed straight back... Rough guess is my arms are closer to 45 degrees passed straight. I think if I can hit right around this position I'd be in a pretty good spot no? One question I have is should the top of my backswing be pretty much the same for every club on a full swing?

edit:

Actually I looked closer and it looks like I'm just about right on where he was saying I needed to stop:

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

It's definitely going to be weird, right now my "trigger" for stopping my backswing is when I feel like my arms are pointed straight back... Rough guess is my arms are closer to 45 degrees passed straight. I think if I can hit right around this position I'd be in a pretty good spot no? One question I have is should the top of my backswing be pretty much the same for every club on a full swing?

With in a certain degree of variance, so yes. I mean, I find I can hit more 3 quarter wedges than I can longer irons, but I would still consider that a full swing area. The feel might be the same, but it can vary.

Yea, straight back is a good feeling, that is about what I felt when I had a full swing, thinking 50%. Now it feels longer, but starting out it was strange.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

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  • Moderator
Posted

It's definitely going to be weird, right now my "trigger" for stopping my backswing is when I feel like my arms are pointed straight back... Rough guess is my arms are closer to 45 degrees passed straight. I think if I can hit right around this position I'd be in a pretty good spot no? One question I have is should the top of my backswing be pretty much the same for every club on a full swing?

edit:

Actually I looked closer and it looks like I'm just about right on where he was saying I needed to stop:

Looks much better.  It will take a while to break from your previous pattern.  BTW, your 1/2 swing is my full swing position!!  Keep doing it every time you do a practice swing.

Scott

Titleist, Edel, Scotty Cameron Putter, Snell - AimPoint - Evolvr - MirrorVision

My Swing Thread

boogielicious - Adjective describing the perfect surf wave

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  • Moderator
Posted
Looks much better.  It will take a while to break from your previous pattern.  BTW, your 1/2 swing is my full swing position!!  Keep doing it every time you do a practice swing.

Agreed, it definitely looks better. I'll take it one step further, though and say that you should do that every time you swing, not just on practice swings.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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Posted

Ok, so here is the updated swing: *sorry for the camera movement was a little windy for my improvised camera stand*

Looks like I'm hitting the checkpoint I was told to hit, so yeah I guess it didn't take that long.

Still a little steep and unfortunately I've still got a bit of flip but not nearly as bad as it was., but since I was only focused on my shorter backswing for now I can live with this. I don't know if I'm able to move on to the next step yet, that's up to Erik to decide but I think I can reliably keep my backswing shorter.

Note: This was an old Titlest Lite100 7 iron that was in my trunk. All these shots had really good flights and felt great coming off the club so there's definitely an improvement in ballstriking. My main miss today was super fat shots and I'm pretty certain that was due to flipping more.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

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Posted

quick comparison pictures from 6-16 range session and today 6-29:

And in all actuality that's not 2 weeks worth of work, that's only maybe 30 minutes or so just figuring out where I should be stopping my backswing?? Who knew?

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
quick comparison pictures from 6-16 range session and today 6-29: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/100703/] [/URL] And in all actuality that's not 2 weeks worth of work, that's only maybe 30 minutes or so just figuring out where I should be stopping my backswing?? Who knew?

Looks awesome, great job!

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

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Posted

Looks awesome, great job!

Thanks Bill, I really needed to start making progress or I was giving some serious thought to taking a break. It's strange though, because I never realized how much of an impact my going passed parallel had on my ability to play. It's obvious that the only reason I played well at all before was due to getting lucky on some days with my timing. As easy as it was to find the right stopping point I'm pretty angry at myself for taking so long to actually do it. I should be much further along in my development considering how many times I've been told to do it *probably a year or close to it* without really taking the whopping 30 minutes to just get it done. However, that's all in the past and now I can focus on the next phase in my progress!

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
quick comparison pictures from 6-16 range session and today 6-29: [URL=http://thesandtrap.com/content/type/61/id/100703/] [/URL] And in all actuality that's not 2 weeks worth of work, that's only maybe 30 minutes or so just figuring out where I should be stopping my backswing?? Who knew?

Who knew??? I think Erik did... ;) Honestly, and this is not really for you, but they (Erik and Mike) don't make random suggestions.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

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Posted

Who knew??? I think Erik did... ;)

Honestly, and this is not really for you, but they (Erik and Mike) don't make random suggestions.

Yeah, that was a snarky "who knew" meaning it was pretty obvious to everyone but me :-P I really did try to make it harder than it needed to be. It's something I always do, tend to over complicate things. And with something like the golf swing which is hard enough, well, we all know how easy it is to over think that.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted
What makes it hard for me is I can see the glaring fault. Then Mike tells me to work on X. I am thinking, "why X? Can't he see what I am doing?" The thing is what he tells me to do will help, I just don't have the expertise to see why. Either way, I am past that. Whatever he says goes. I am just thankful for the advice.

-Matt-

"does it still count as a hit fairway if it is the next one over"

DRIVER-Callaway FTiz__3 WOOD-Nike SQ Dymo 15__HYBRIDS-3,4,5 Adams__IRONS-6-PW Adams__WEDGES-50,55,60 Wilson Harmonized__PUTTER-Odyssey Dual Force Rossie II

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Yep, I definitely have to let go of what I think needs fixed and just accept that they know much better than I do what the best thing is to focus on. I'm pretty excited to see what the next step will be.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Moderator
Posted
Thanks Bill, I really needed to start making progress or I was giving some serious thought to taking a break. It's strange though, because I never realized how much of an impact my going passed parallel had on my ability to play. It's obvious that the only reason I played well at all before was due to getting lucky on some days with my timing. As easy as it was to find the right stopping point I'm pretty angry at myself for taking so long to actually do it. I should be much further along in my development considering how many times I've been told to do it *probably a year or close to it* without really taking the whopping 30 minutes to just get it done. However, that's all in the past and now I can focus on the next phase in my progress!

Just make sure you stay on top of it, too. With every new piece, you have to remember where to stop your swing. I've been doing that on and off for a while, now, and I'm starting to realize that I'll always have a tendency to overswing, so it just needs monitoring.

Bill

“By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; Second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest.” - Confucius

My Swing Thread

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Posted

Just make sure you stay on top of it, too. With every new piece, you have to remember where to stop your swing. I've been doing that on and off for a while, now, and I'm starting to realize that I'll always have a tendency to overswing, so it just needs monitoring.

Definitely, and they very well may not give me anything else to work on for a bit until this becomes ingrained in my swing. I think that my overswing came from thinking I needed to swing that far to hit the ball far. Once I get some rounds in using this new shorter swing and see that my distances aren't suffering, and quite possibly improve with better quality strikes, perhaps my brain won't tell my body it has to swing so far. Either way it will be something I check every time I record myself.

KICK THE FLIP!!

In the bag:
:srixon: Z355

:callaway: XR16 3 Wood
:tmade: Aeroburner 19* 3 hybrid
:ping: I e1 irons 4-PW
:vokey: SM5 50, 60
:wilsonstaff: Harmonized Sole Grind 56 and Windy City Putter

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Note: This thread is 1371 days old. We appreciate that you found this thread instead of starting a new one, but if you plan to post here please make sure it's still relevant. If not, please start a new topic. Thank you!

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  • Posts

    • Day 610 - 2026-06-03 Got some work in between lessons today. Rare late day, teaching until 7:30pm.
    • Let's continue on… Cool. The thing is, nobody's claiming par is "reliable" and par's inclusion piggy-backs in the course rating, which is awfully close to par and, thus, brings par in to make it make sense. Once again, for those in the back… (CR - Par) just makes it really easy to know what kind of score you need to shoot to best, match, or play worse than your handicap index. Yes, when par is different, the players from the higher par tees get an extra stroke (72 vs. 71, the 72s get an extra stroke. That makes sense and is a small complication (more info at https://www.usga.org/content/usga/home-page/handicapping/roh/Content/rules/Committee%20Content/USGA/LG_R6d.htm). However, most of the time, this adjustment will not be needed, as many courses play to the same par for the same genders from all sets of tees. And, the rare times it is needed, par (measured in whole numbers, integers) and strokes (also whole numbers/integers) map easily and the idea is easily grasped. Dean seems to be unaware of the fact that most every golfer carries something orders of magnitude more powerful than the highest end desktop computers available the last time he consulted with the USGA in their pockets. While it is quaint that his club puts printouts by the first tee… get with the times, Dean. Look up your handicap index and course handicap in the GHIN app and get on with it. It's a better system than the one that didn't account — at all — for a difference in the playing conditions (via an algorithm, not a judgment). Dean's assertions about the "less precise system because of par" continues to make absolutely zero sense. Right, it still changed tee to tee. Now it just changes differently… and in a way that more accurately reflects the score you need to shoot to play to your handicap. Previously, a 1.1 index would get 1 stroke on a 66.7/122 par-72 course. Now they give four strokes back to the course and must shoot 68 to play to their handicap. This makes way more sense. The 18-shot difference is a pretty extreme example. Maybe a long course that also offers a par-three set of tees could play that long, but… man, that's not going to be super common. Sensationalistic much, Dean? Also, once those unhappy (complete assumption) golfers realize a) what the change shows them (playing to net par = playing to your index) and b) realizes that their differential is going to be the same… I think they'll get over their initial questions. No. And yet… if he shoots the same scores, he'll get the same handicap index he has now. But he'll know on each course what score he needs to shoot to "play to his handicap." Sheesh, Dean. This stuff isn't that hard to figure out. Enough with the sensationalistic stuff. I don't find it "unacceptable" at all. Then again, I'm not nearly 80 and seemingly incapable of doing basic math these days. No. This literally makes no sense, as that part of the differential calculation and the course handicap calculation remains identical. Good! No. Categorically wrong. They should have been adjusting their handicaps all along. Previously it was by subtracting the course ratings. Which… is still basically what's done, with the addition of the course rating being "baked in" to the course handicap calculation. Dean is wrong here, or doing some math heretofore unknown by the world. When par is the same, what determines the difference in handicaps? The course rating, which Dean loves! Sheesh! You had to things when players were in situations like this before, too. This is getting exhausting. He keeps using words like "less precise" and "unfair" but does not seem to understand what they mean. This is like the Princess Bride meme: "you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." The caps reduce upward movement. Committees have reign to reduce a player's handicap, and there's still an automatic Exceptional Score Reduction. I'm going through these more quickly now because… well, it's silly how badly Dean misses the mark with this blog post. Dean is literally confusing the upward movement (with the soft and hard caps) here with the exceptional score reduction which is used when lowering handicaps due to an exceptionally good score. The creators of the WHS are handicap experts. They know more about the current state of handicaps/handicapping than the Pope Emeritus. It's been shown to have almost no effect across all handicaps. Yes, some 36s under the old system are now 35s under the new system. Yawn. He should have stopped there. It's easier to apply and makes more sense. This makes no sense. It's "not complex" but players will have to guess? And, for men or women, the stroke index of each hole doesn't change because they play a different set of tees. They get a different number of strokes, but it's always been true that when you get 14 strokes you apply a stroke to stroke index holes 1-14, and when you get 11, to just holes with a SI of 1-11. Objection, your honor. Assumes facts not in evidence. Dean's just out here continuing to make shit up about "the inaccuracy of par" and ignoring that with Par (an integer) came the Course Rating, which he agrees is precise and accurate. No. No, this is inaccurate. Also, as noted, you can randomly assign stroke indexes, and so long as all the low numbers or all the high numbers are not clumped together at the beginning or ends of the 18 holes, matches generally work out the same. This is inaccurate. It is an algorithm that looks at scores. That's it. Also, this is better than a system like the prior one where no such thing existed at all. Wildly inaccurate and off-base. Did they do actual testing? No need. They have millions and millions of rounds and ran many, many, many simulations. That's testing. Dean seems to continue to be unaware of the fact that computers are more powerful now than they were in 2002. But, he's nearly 80, so we can understand if not going so far as to give him a pass on how much he gets wrong. Cool. Noted. For the most part that was because many countries haven't been able to rate enough of their courses. :sigh:
    • Day 3 (3 Jun 26) - More work on keeping arms connected today - hard foam balls with 7i and 5w…..
    • Day 274 6-3 flow drill getting chest through, arms in front. Arms get a little pinned to the side, not as much in front as I want them when I add speed. 
    • Shot 48 yesterday.  For me bogey golf is good.  I was 10 over through 7 and figured with a Par 3 and 4 coming on all I needed was birdie / par to get my 45. I had a great tee shot on #8 and sunk  a 5 footer for birdie, game was coming together, now just needed par on #9. Had a great tee drive and the green was within range for a hoped GIR or nGIR.  But I pulled the shot left into tall weeds and needed to take a drop.  So much for par, but a bogey for 46 is still good for me. I hit my lob wedge to get over a small tree and saw the ball riding nicely  on line to the pin when my club hit the ball a 2nd time on my follow through causing the ball to change directions and ended up @ pin high but along the same tall weeds I just took an unplayable out of.  had no room for a backswing, Just hacked at it and it shot across the green to the rough on the far side.  Needed a chip & 1 putt got a triple bogey. you can see the hole fall apart in the screenshot below.  
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