Forum Profile Handicap Indices....

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I know the question wasn't for me, but I know I don't enjoy playing against people that are significantly worse. In fact, I try to play with guys that are similar skill level, or ideally, better than I am. If I'm playing with someone with a higher handicap, I offer strokes or try to come up with a game (like wolf) that allows them to be competitive.

Me too. I'm just trying to understand the thought process of someone that thinks it would be fun and challenging to compete against someone much less skilled than himself, without offering some kind of handicap to level the playing field.

Apart from an ego stroking, I see no appeal.

[RickK]

I don't update my handicap in my profile signature every 2 weeks when GHIN releases the handicaps.  It is close enough.  My handicap does not vary much over time.

So, what you see in my signature is correct for now.  It may not be exact in 6 days from now but it will still be close.

My handicap is current.  I play 40+ stroke play tournament rounds every year and they get posted to GHIN without me doing anything.  Now, I have been a lot lower handicap in years past and on occasion, I can still shoot a spectacular round. But, with back/neck/nerve issues and my age...it is not going to happen real often.  When it does...it is a joy.

A lot of people who do not play in tournaments do not keep an official handicap.  I know guys who will tell you, I don't need one, not going to pay for one.  Funny thing is, they always want me to give them strokes.  But they can't tell me what their real handicap is and I don't play golf with them week after week so it is hard to say what they should be or what they tell you is not inflated.

I would say a goodly portion of the golfing public have no real clue how to calculate a handicap.  Most will say something like, well I shoot in the middle 80s most of the time so I must be about a 13.

I find it really funny that you will meet someone and they ask if you want to play for something and they inflate their handicap when they tell you what they shoot.  But, that same person could post on a lot of golf forums and would tell you his handicap is lower than it really is.  :)

[Fourputt]

Originally Posted by trackster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I can't fathom why you wouldn't want to be competitive.  Golf has been handicapped since just about forever.  It is such a difficult game to excel at that it's inevitable that there will always be a wide range of skill levels, and to make the game enjoyable and competitive, handicapping just makes good sense.

I would get zero enjoyment out of playing a 3 handicap straight up same as I'd get zero enjoyment from playing a 20 without giving him strokes.  It has nothing to do with bragging about who beat who - that's reserved for when I do play others who are close to me in ability.  It has to do with making a match or skins game competitive.  What's the point of playing a match when it's essentially over on the front 9 (in actual fact the result can probably be published before playing from the first tee)?  That just sounds stupid to me.  It certainly wouldn't be fun, regardless of which end of the whipping I'm on.

I live on a island where there is no golf.  To travel to the nearest course would cost a minimum of $400 round trip and the course charges $250 to play for non hotel guests.  That's a bit out of my price range.

Did you never play sports in high school?  When we would go play a better team than ours we wouldn't not play because they were going to beat us by a lot.  You play hopefully because you enjoy the game.  We don't  have better runners run full marathons vs. bad runners running half marathons.  If you are in a division you run the same distance no matter your ability.  As bad as this sounds, if you are not as good at golf as someone then you have no reason "beating" them by them giving you strokes.

Why, oh why, do people always try to bring up team sports when talking about golf??  They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with each other.  No way you could possibly devise a handicapping system for football, or any other team sport, which would make any sense at all.

Amateur golf at the club level has been handicapped for as long as I've ever heard of it (and I'm talking long before my time).  It's just how it is, and to pit a 3 straight up against a 20 and call it any sort of a competition is just stupid.  Those who think that going handicap free is somehow more pure just aren't getting it.  If you never play competitively, then you are missing out on half the fun of playing golf.  I've played some truly tense matches which came right down to the wire, even though there were 15 strokes of handicap difference.  It gives you the same feeling as it does with 2 scratch golfers going head to head, even though you are not even close in ability.  If you've never done, it, then you just can't know.

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

Quote:

Originally Posted by David in FL

Quote:

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

I know the question wasn't for me, but I know I don't enjoy playing against people that are significantly worse. In fact, I try to play with guys that are similar skill level, or ideally, better than I am. If I'm playing with someone with a higher handicap, I offer strokes or try to come up with a game (like wolf) that allows them to be competitive.

Me too. I'm just trying to understand the thought process of someone that thinks it would be fun and challenging to compete against someone much less skilled than himself, without offering some kind of handicap to level the playing field.

Apart from an ego stroking, I see no appeal.

I can't even see it from an ego point of view.  It would just be boring.  In such a case, I'm just going to play and enjoy the companionship.  It's senseless to call it a competition.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by David in FL

You'd enjoy "competing" against and would find challenge and enjoyment in beating a 20 hcp golfer?

My best friend who I play most of my rounds with is a 24 vanity capper.  We don't necessarily compete when we play but we compare scores.  He has tied me over 9 holes this year.  I played with a girl who golfs D1 and has a +1.6 handicap and she beat me by 5 strokes.  I had fun competing against her even though she was way better than me.

Originally Posted by Fourputt

Why, oh why, do people always try to bring up team sports when talking about golf??  They have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with each other.  No way you could possibly devise a handicapping system for football, or any other team sport, which would make any sense at all.

Amateur golf at the club level has been handicapped for as long as I've ever heard of it (and I'm talking long before my time).  It's just how it is, and to pit a 3 straight up against a 20 and call it any sort of a competition is just stupid.  Those who think that going handicap free is somehow more pure just aren't getting it.  If you never play competitively, then you are missing out on half the fun of playing golf.  I've played some truly tense matches which came right down to the wire, even though there were 15 strokes of handicap difference.  It gives you the same feeling as it does with 2 scratch golfers going head to head, even though you are not even close in ability.  If you've never done, it, then you just can't know.

I can't even see it from an ego point of view.  It would just be boring.  In such a case, I'm just going to play and enjoy the companionship.  It's senseless to call it a competition.

Uh did you not see my posts about running?  That is an individual sport.  We don't handicap races by distances for slower people.  And you could devise a handicap for team sports.  It's called a spread.  But doing that would be completely idiotic, therefore its not done.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

I can't fathom why you wouldn't want to be competitive.  Golf has been handicapped since just about forever.  It is such a difficult game to excel at that it's inevitable that there will always be a wide range of skill levels, and to make the game enjoyable and competitive, handicapping just makes good sense.

I would get zero enjoyment out of playing a 3 handicap straight up same as I'd get zero enjoyment from playing a 20 without giving him strokes.  It has nothing to do with bragging about who beat who - that's reserved for when I do play others who are close to me in ability.  It has to do with making a match or skins game competitive.  What's the point of playing a match when it's essentially over on the front 9 (in actual fact the result can probably be published before playing from the first tee)?  That just sounds stupid to me.  It certainly wouldn't be fun, regardless of which end of the whipping I'm on.

I live on a island where there is no golf.  To travel to the nearest course would cost a minimum of $400 round trip and the course charges $250 to play for non hotel guests.  That's a bit out of my price range.

I'm about as competitive a person as anyone can be. Any of my family members or friends would attest to that. I am competitive to a fault, and I openly admit it.

Playing against a 10 handicap that gives me 12 strokes, is not competing to me. I find no competitive value in that. If I can't beat someone on an even playing field, what's the point?

You're not competing against the person, you're competing against yourself. And that's fine, and that's why I play golf the way I do.

I cannot take joy in beating someone if my scorecard has a higher number than theirs. They won. Period. I'll play against anyone, but I want to beat them, I don't want charity points. If I lose every time, then so be it. I'd rather lose than be given free points.

What I can't fathom, is why some people can't golf with other people without needing to adjust scores to "compete". I have no problem conceding that many people are better than I am. I can play with them, try to learn, and have a great time without living in some fantasy land where I "beat" them because I had a good day, and they had a bad one...even though their bad day was still better than my good day.

I know I'm in the minority here, and that's fine. I don't judge anyone who competes with the handicap system, so to be fair, don't judge me for thinking it's BS.

One quick example and I'll end my rant...

I never played tennis until my girlfriend and I started dating about 3.5 years ago. She played varsity in high school, and beat my ass every time. I didn't ask for free points, or to use the doubles lines. I kept playing and getting better, and I can routinely beat her now. Not a great accomplishment beating a girl, but either way...I don't want free points, and neither does she. Beating someone based on the HI isn't really accomplishing anything on a competition level.

[whatwoodtigerdo]

I need to find 3 guys with 25+ handicaps with that competition mentality that want to play $5 skins. Free golf would be nice.

[geauxforbroke]

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

Playing against a 10 handicap that gives me 12 strokes, is not competing to me. I find no competitive value in that. If I can't beat someone on an even playing field, what's the point?

What if you're playing with a 30 handicap? Do you play them straight up? Not much competitive value in beating someone that's worse than you, is it?

Originally Posted by Slice of Life

I never played tennis until my girlfriend and I started dating about 3.5 years ago. She played varsity in high school, and beat my ass every time. I didn't ask for free points, or to use the doubles lines. I kept playing and getting better, and I can routinely beat her now. Not a great accomplishment beating a girl, but either way...I don't want free points, and neither does she. Beating someone based on the HI isn't really accomplishing anything on a competition level.

Not apples to apples. At all. A great tennis player can give you zero chance of scoring based on their play. Theoretically, I could shoot the same score if I was playing against a touring pro or a 30 handicapper.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by whatwoodtigerdo

I need to find 3 guys with 25+ handicaps with that competition mentality that want to play $5 skins. Free golf would be nice.

Amateur sports competitiveness has absolutely nothing to do with money. Nothing.

I'd rather beat someone at my level or better for absolutely nothing, than someone worse than me for $1,000. That's what being competitive is. Taking someone's money who legitimately beat you is just gambling...which is fun. But it is absolutely not competitive by the true athletic definition.

[MS256]

Originally Posted by Fourputt

No way you could possibly devise a handicapping system for football, or any other team sport, which would make any sense at all.

1A schools wouldn't stand a chance if they played a schedule against 6A schools no matter how good they are.

In softball there are also different classifications that play with different limits on the amount of home runs you can hit. After the limit a ball over the fence is an out. In class A tournaments with unlimited home runs even very good class B or C teams just can't match the 50 or 60 runs a top class A team can score. BUT...That same lower class team can match up with the class A team just fine if they play with home run limits.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

What if you're playing with a 30 handicap? Do you play them straight up? Not much competitive value in beating someone that's worse than you, is it?

Not apples to apples. At all. A great tennis player can give you zero chance of scoring based on their play. Theoretically, I could shoot the same score if I was playing against a touring pro or a 30 handicapper.

For the bold: No, I wouldn't be competing with them. I'd be having a friendly round, enjoying the game, weather, and general conversation.

For the non-bold: Playing against a scratch golfer gives me zero chance of winning based on their play. Apples to apples. Again, you're talking about competing with yourself...which is great, and what I do almost every time I'm on the course.

The handicap system is just you competing against yourself, and your competitor competing against himself. Whoever beats themselves the best, wins.

[Slice of Life]

FTR, I have no issue with the HI for skins, or fun. But it's not competition and I'd take no joy in "winning" on an athletically competitive level.

You wanna play your friend who will give you 10 strokes? That's awesome...bet on it...if you get his money, great! Lot of fun had for both parties, I'm sure. But at the end of the day, he probably kicked your ass at the sport you were playing, and that's the bottom line.

So THAT was my issue...don't bring up competitiveness and the handicap system, it's almost an oxymoron.

[David in FL]

I'm about as competitive a person as anyone can be. Any of my family members or friends would attest to that. I am competitive to a fault, and I openly admit it. Playing against a 10 handicap that gives me 12 strokes, is not competing to me. I find no competitive value in that. If I can't beat someone on an even playing field, what's the point?  You're not competing against the person, you're competing against yourself. And that's fine, and that's why I play golf the way I do.  I cannot take joy in beating someone if my scorecard has a higher number than theirs. They won. Period. I'll play against anyone, but I want to beat them, I don't want charity points. If I lose every time, then so be it. I'd rather lose than be given free points.  What I can't fathom, is why some people can't golf with other people without needing to adjust scores to "compete". I have no problem conceding that many people are better than I am. I can play with them, try to learn, and have a great time without living in some fantasy land where I "beat" them because I had a good day, and they had a bad one...even though their bad day was still better than my good day. I know I'm in the minority here, and that's fine. I don't judge anyone who competes with the handicap system, so to be fair, don't judge me for thinking it's BS. One quick example and I'll end my rant... I never played tennis until my girlfriend and I started dating about 3.5 years ago. She played varsity in high school, and beat my ass every time. I didn't ask for free points, or to use the doubles lines. I kept playing and getting better, and I can routinely beat her now. Not a great accomplishment beating a girl, but either way...I don't want free points, and neither does she. Beating someone based on the HI isn't really accomplishing anything on a competition level.

Do you enjoy competing against someone much worse than you? While it's fine that you're willing to try to compete evenly with a better player, remember, they're going to be bored to tears by the lack of challenge you provide them. That's the beauty of golf. Golfers of all skill levels can find challenge and enjoyment in competing against each other.....without having to find someone as good (or bad) as they are.

[trackster]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Do you enjoy competing against someone much worse than you? While it's fine that you're willing to try to compete evenly with a better player, remember, they're going to be bored to tears by the lack of challenge you provide them.

That's the beauty of golf. Golfers of all skill levels can find challenge and enjoyment in competing against each other.....without having to find someone as good (or bad) as they are.

I would much rather beat a 20 hcp straight up then take a pseudo win from a scratch golfer who gives me 10 strokes.  And why are they board to tears.  In golf you are always playing for a score.  Just like in track, I was racing for a time.  I didn't care if I had competition, I just wanted a fast time.

Slice of life put it very well when he said that you are still competing against yourself, and who ever beats themselves by the most wins, not really a head to head competition.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by David in FL

Do you enjoy competing against someone much worse than you? While it's fine that you're willing to try to compete evenly with a better player, remember, they're going to be bored to tears by the lack of challenge you provide them.

That's the beauty of golf. Golfers of all skill levels can find challenge and enjoyment in competing against each other.....without having to find someone as good (or bad) as they are.

Refer to the rest of my posts. You're playing against yourself with the handicap system, not the other person. Again...that's fine, and fun...and you can have a great time doing it.

This talk about competing with someone you gave 15 strokes to is poppycock. You're competing against yourself...that's the only REAL competition in that type of game.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by trackster

I would much rather beat a 20 hcp straight up then take a pseudo win from a scratch golfer who gives me 10 strokes.  And why are they board to tears.  In golf you are always playing for a score.  Just like in track, I was racing for a time.  I didn't care if I had competition, I just wanted a fast time.

Slice of life put it very well when he said that you are still competing against yourself, and who ever beats themselves by the most wins, not really a head to head competition.

And there you have it. If you're bored to tears golfing because the other person can't quite birdie every hole along with you, you're probably not a very fun person to be around anyway, and you're DEFINITELY not competitive if you don't care how you're playing in that same round.

And again, no disrespect to people who use the HI system and play against people that way. Go out, have a good time, and enjoy yourself.

Just don't assume people who don't maintain one don't care about competition and don't take golf seriously. It may very well be the opposite...

[geauxforbroke]

Trackster and Slice: You guys are arguing against the handicap system in regards to medal play, but what about match play? Or a skins game? In those cases, you ARE playing against your opponent. Would you enjoy playing a 30+ 'capper in match play? Of course not. There would be no competition. Sure the golf would still be enjoyable, but there would be zero competition.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by geauxforbroke

Trackster and Slice: You guys are arguing against the handicap system in regards to medal play, but what about match play? Or a skins game? In those cases, you ARE playing against your opponent. Would you enjoy playing a 30+ 'capper in match play? Of course not. There would be no competition. Sure the golf would still be enjoyable, but there would be zero competition.

I already posted about skins. And I don't get the match play thing either.

I don't play 1 on 1 basketball with 8 year olds...I'll win every time...no competition. Just like I don't play 1 on 1 basketball with 15 year olds...I'll lose every time...

[geauxforbroke]

[QUOTE name="geauxforbroke" url="/t/68730/forum-profile-handicaps/90#post_873493"] Trackster and Slice: You guys are arguing against the handicap system in regards to medal play, but what about match play? Or a skins game? In those cases, you ARE playing against your opponent. Would you enjoy playing a 30+ 'capper in match play? Of course not. There would be no competition. Sure the golf would still be enjoyable, but there would be zero competition.[/QUOTE] I already posted about skins. And I don't get the match play thing either. I don't play 1 on 1 basketball with 8 year olds...I'll win every time...no competition. Just like I don't play 1 on 1 basketball with 15 year olds...I'll lose every time...

Fair enough.